eBay "sniping"

dHarry

Well-known member
Calling all eBay masters - do you have any experience of "sniping" software/service that puts your bid in for you seconds before the auction ends?
 

bassnation

the abyss
minikomi said:
isnt this kind of redundant since the 'max bid' thing came in? just bid what youre willing to pay..

the sniping tools ensure that you pay the lowest possible amount for the item, the idea being that hardly anyone bids until the last moment - thus keeping the price down. the max bid feature won't do this.
 

domtyler

Teasmaid
The max bid is still the most honourable way to operate on ebay. Twice now I've lost out to some last minute (second even) sniper on ebay and it's infuriating. Not only is it infuriating it's wholly irrational behavior, presumably these are people who can't decide how much their max bid would be and only know that they want to spend one pound more than anyone else!!! All it does is compress the bidding into the last dying seconds of the auction thereby requiring complete attention from the bidder and some of us have better things to do.

I bid on an old trumpet (childhood dream by the way) which was due to end on christmas morning. Because I really wanted it I put in a highish max bid, but for most of the auction I needn't have worried becasue even with hours to go the lot was with me for a fraction of my maximum. In the time it took me to make my christmas breakfast (scrambled eggs with truffle oil) some heartless swine had swooped in and made incrementaly increasing bids until with a single second to spare he/she had pipped me to the post. It very nearly ruined my christmas.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
domtyler said:
The max bid is still the most honourable way to operate on ebay. Twice now I've lost out to some last minute (second even) sniper on ebay and it's infuriating. Not only is it infuriating it's wholly irrational behavior, presumably these are people who can't decide how much their max bid would be and only know that they want to spend one pound more than anyone else!!! All it does is compress the bidding into the last dying seconds of the auction thereby requiring complete attention from the bidder and some of us have better things to do.

My understanding is that sniping programmes do not bid incrementally, but ask you for your highest bid and then bid in the last few seconds. Ebay then bids incrementally until there is a winner.

When there are two bidders one of them will ALWAYS lose by a pound or so. This will still be the case if one person's highest bid was a fiver and the other's was 5million quid.

The fact that you were sitting on ebay on xmas morning suggests that you also one of those people who "can't decide how much their max bid would be and only know that they want to spend one pound more than anyone else".
 
D

droid

Guest
Sniping is the only way to go. First of all it lulls early bidders into a flase sense of security, and secondly allows you to limit your max bid to something reasonable, as the other bidders dont have time to reset their max bid or to counter-bid.

I dont use a programme - just my finger... usually bid in the last 1 - 2 seconds depending on my connection.
 

domtyler

Teasmaid
droid said:
Sniping is the only way to go. First of all it lulls early bidders into a flase sense of security, and secondly allows you to limit your max bid to something reasonable, as the other bidders dont have time to reset their max bid or to counter-bid.

The whole point is that your max bid should BY DEFINITION be A. reasonable (actually that's between you and your bank manager), and B. not an amount which you would want to increase either by "reseting" or "counter-biding". That's why it's a max bid. By extention there would be no advantage to lulling early bidders into a false sense of security if everybody used the max bid PROPERLY, as whether or not they felt secure would have no bearing on whether they will increase their maximum bid.

Am I beginning to sound anal about this?
 

3underscore

Well-known member
Sniping is the most sensible way to buy. Why should I make my max bid your guidance price. It is an auction, such information has a value, so I don't want to give it away.

I'm sure some economist will have had a look into the ebay method of auction, and can guarantee that there is a very reasoned proof of why you should snipe. It is only sensible.
 

bassnation

the abyss
domtyler said:
The whole point is that your max bid should BY DEFINITION be A. reasonable (actually that's between you and your bank manager), and B. not an amount which you would want to increase either by "reseting" or "counter-biding". That's why it's a max bid. By extention there would be no advantage to lulling early bidders into a false sense of security if everybody used the max bid PROPERLY, as whether or not they felt secure would have no bearing on whether they will increase their maximum bid.

Am I beginning to sound anal about this?

no, not at all. it is annoying. but the problem is, once a group of people start to use these things, if you don't your immediately at a disadvantage - so everyone ends up sniping.

afaik, sniping tools are prohibited by ebay - although not sure how they'd be able to catch you.
 
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domtyler

Teasmaid
john eden said:
My understanding is that sniping programmes do not bid incrementally, but ask you for your highest bid and then bid in the last few seconds. Ebay then bids incrementally until there is a winner.

In this case it was manually, incrementaly done. The software sounds even more mean-spirited.

When there are two bidders one of them will ALWAYS lose by a pound or so. This will still be the case if one person's highest bid was a fiver and the other's was 5million quid.

Fair point.

The fact that you were sitting on ebay on xmas morning suggests that you also one of those people who "can't decide how much their max bid would be and only know that they want to spend one pound more than anyone else".

That's not how it happened, I just made one bid, my carefully considered maximum, and during the day checked the auction just once. I'm exaggerating my outrage for effect but I do think that sniping is a counter-productive practice that does not result in cheaper purchases than Max bids.
 

domtyler

Teasmaid
bassnation said:
no, not at all. it is annoying. but the problem is, once a group of people start to use these things, if you don't your immediately at a disadvantage - so everyone ends up sniping.

That's exactly why we are all going to hell-in-a-hand-basket.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
domtyler said:
That's not how it happened, I just made one bid, my carefully considered maximum, and during the day checked the auction just once. I'm exaggerating my outrage for effect but I do think that sniping is a counter-productive practice that does not result in cheaper purchases than Max bids.

Fair do's - I'm glad your xmas day was more productive and sorry you didn't get yer trumpet.

The only sensible guidance with all of this can be:

1) decide how much you want something
2) decide how much at most you would be prepared to pay
3) bid
4) if you lose, chalk it up for experience. Someone will always have more money than you or want something more than you. For many things you will get a second chance.
5) Try to remember all the stuff you got cheap, and/or that you would possibly never have found were it not for the interweb.
6) Have a very nice breakfast! :cool:

I've just signed up for an auction sniper programme...
 
D

droid

Guest
domtyler said:
The whole point is that your max bid should BY DEFINITION be A. reasonable (actually that's between you and your bank manager), and B. not an amount which you would want to increase either by "reseting" or "counter-biding". That's why it's a max bid. By extention there would be no advantage to lulling early bidders into a false sense of security if everybody used the max bid PROPERLY, as whether or not they felt secure would have no bearing on whether they will increase their maximum bid.

Am I beginning to sound anal about this?

OK - based on your system, lets say someone sees a record they want for £2.50 on an auction that still has 7 days to go. They bid first with a maximum bid of say £15. the actual price goes up to 3.50. The next day, a guy then comes along and bids for the item, setting his maximum bid to £20 - the actual price shoots up to £15.49 or something. Next day someone comes along, and trys to buy it for a max bid of £18, setting the new price to £18.99, folowed by another bidder who sets a max bid of £35 (to be sure) - price goes up to £20.99 and we are now only 3 days into our auction... If those other bidders had been snipers, depending on how good they are, they all could have held back and gotten the item for 15.99 or 18.99... in the 'max bid' scenario, the price will just keep going up, as basically, the only real limit in a potentially infinite global market is the time constraint on the auction....

So ya see - sniping at the end may result in getting it at the same price - but human nature being what it is - it usually doesnt .As theres less percieved demand for the item in question, and therefore less competition you get lower prices as a result. Theres also the fact that no-one actually wants to hit their max bid ceiling (I usually add aboout 20% for something I really want). A penny saved is a penny earned after all.

Everybody gets burned by this at some stage, and the only sensible response is to do it yourself. Theres nothing 'dishonourable' about it at all... though I do prefer to be bidding against a human and not a machine myself! ;)

That's exactly why we are all going to hell-in-a-hand-basket.

Thats Capitalism for ya!
 

bassnation

the abyss
john eden said:
I've just signed up for an auction sniper programme...

have you ever sold anything on ebay, john?

i'm just selling a load of old vhs and dvd titles and wondered if anyone has any tips on selling. for instance, do you set a reserve price? ebay.co.uk only allows a reserve of 50 quid minimum which is way more than the value of most of my items.
 

dHarry

Well-known member
thanks all for a well-rounded debate on the pros and cons of max bids & sniping!

sad x-mas story, Domtyler :( funnily enough, I too am on the look out for a trumpet, much to the amusement and dread of my partner!

actually max bid seems to work in favour of the seller; after all, the essence of the auction is that no-one wants to pay more than a quid higher than anyone else. Manual sniping is the best way to pay as little as possible in a time-limited auction (as opposed to the trad open-ended auction - "any more bids for this fine piece? going once, going twice...").

John - which sniper servive/software are you going with? I'd love to know how you get on.

Does anyone know if eBay would ban users for this, could they check bid IPs or something?
 
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bassnation

the abyss
dHarry said:
Does anyone know if eBay would ban users for this, could they check IP's or something?

as far as i'm aware, the snipers perfectly emulate submission of an ebay form - including fudging the user agent so the request looks like its coming from a web browser rather than from a sniper. essentially the programmers will have reverse engineered the bid form so the sniper can be used as an alternative client.

the way ebay might be able to detect (and prohibit) these snipers is by generating some kind of encoded key on the auction bid form page - if this isn't submitted back to the server then its a sniper. however, obviously there are still working snipers, so i guess ebay hasn't cracked the problem yet!
 
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john eden

male pale and stale
Yeah I sold a load of old industrial records and zines etc at the end of last year.

Tips tips tips!

1) Reserve price - only to be used for stuff which is really really valuable. Otherwise it just puts people off.
2) Do a search to see if anyone else is selling it. If you "watch" that item then you can find how much it will go for. There is also a site which shows you old auctions but I forget what it is. You can also rip off people's blurb.
3) Set your starting price low. You will be more likely to get more bidders this way. Remember most auctions only come into life in the last 30 seconds so don't worry if you don't get many bids.
4) If it's something you just want shut of then set a "buy it now" price which is slightly more than you expect to sell the item for.
5) The more useful info you include, the better, but don't go overboard.
6) Be honest about condition
7) Try to include details about p&p where possible.
8) Sell internationally (more people) but use paypal only. UK it's alright to accept cheques, cash, postal order etc, tho it is a pain in the arse.
9) Don't use swearwords in your auction, it may not show up.
10) Always have a piccie.
11) If you are listing a lot of the same thing (i.e. DVDs) then you can use your first listed item as a template for the rest - most of the stuff like p&p etc will be the same.

Others?
 

john eden

male pale and stale
dHarry said:
John - which sniper servive/software are you going with? I'd love to know how you get on.

Does anyone know if eBay would ban users for this, could they check IP's or something?

auctionsniper.com

Someone recommended me them a while ago.

You get 5 free snipes and it all seems quite straightforward. You do have to give them your ebay login and password tho, which is a bit unnerving.

Another advantage is I can place bids at work - the cookies from ebay don't get through my firewall here if I bid direct.

In terms of ebay banning people I can see no reason why they would want to - the money is still rolling in...
 

dHarry

Well-known member
bassnation said:
for instance, do you set a reserve price? ebay.co.uk only allows a reserve of 50 quid minimum which is way more than the value of most of my items.

can you not set a min. starting bid instead?
 

john eden

male pale and stale
dHarry said:
can you not set a min. starting bid instead?

You can do this, but it only really works for rare stuff.

People are less likely to bid on something which starts at 10 quid (which they imagine will go up) than 99p (which may then go up to a tenner).
 
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