Vinyl Pressing: Tips and Specs

Chef Napalm

Lost in the Supermarket
WOEBOT said:
That's quite a lot of action since August all told. Huge respect to all the people bringing out records. I reckon putting out a record in itself is a cogent artistic statement, it's a lot more difficult than cobbling together a mix CD, a genuine real-world production hurdle. If you're releasing out records you've definitely got something to say.
Reading this in Woebot’s Grime ‘04 CD thread has gotten me thinking.

Let's say, just for argument's sake, that one of our number *ahem* has decided he has a choon worth releasing (my mum likes it, anyway). Rather than chase some record-deal/pipe-dream, the Dissensian in question wants to press up a minimal amount of his/her/its own white labels. Unfortunately, the lack of local vinyl pressing equipment has forced him onto the internet. Knowing that both the music industry and internet businesses are essentially corrupt, our (cynical) hero is very concerned about the possibility of getting hosed by some fly-by-night operator with a dial-up connection and a nose for suckers. Cost is also an issue. Cheap is good, but it’s been my experience that you get what you pay for, if you’re lucky.

So, what’s the score? With whom do the grime crews/mash-up artists press their W/Ls? What should I be looking for in terms of services provided, quality control and final product (Keeping in mind, of course, financial constraints)?

The other possibility (and the one that really appeals to my engineering spirit) is a true DIY operation. Ever since I saw this and this, I’ve been thinking about building my own lacquer lathe. I mean, we’re talking about 80 year-old technology here; how hard could it be. Mechanically, it’s some motors and a ball-screw. Electrically, it’s wiring and some kind of rudimentary amplifier set-up. The tricky parts are the cutting head and lacquer blanks.

The web is surprisingly lacking in specific technical information on either subject. Lots of nice pictures of heads, but nothing explicit on materials, construction, or even precisely how they function. Same with the blanks; lots of places that use them, but no specs on materials, manufacturing processes, or even bulk suppliers. Not only that, but when you contact sites that ostensibly feature this kind of equipment, they NEVER return your email. All in all it’s been a frustrating and largely fruitless search for answers.

I have this grand vision (speaking of pipe-dreams) of an open-source web-site, complete with project diary, design schematics, downloadable blue prints, and equipment supplier links. Make your own music, build your own gear. True Do-It-Yourself and all of the freedom that comes with it.

Having said all that, would anybody here be interested in such a project? Any help (technical or otherwise) would be greatly appreciated. Just try not to burst my bubble.
 

Woebot

Well-known member
oh brave soldier!!! lol.

i went with nick k. to a mastering plant a while ago (google: woebot mastering a record)

from what i remember the process has two steps:

a) mastering
b) the duplication of the acetate

but natch if you're only making 100 dubplates you could probably use the same machine. the only complication being that the dubplate wears out quite easily, is made of a less durable substance than your average lp.

those mastering machines are mental. thoroughly refined in a "rolls royce style" but the principle behind them is incredibly simple. i reckon its possible, but more than that i reckon its something you could get into and if you had nous you'd be pushing at the boundaries of what was possible in the process before long (king tubby style). i doubt much r'n'd money is sunk into the process. im sure its generally assumed that the perfect model/workflow has been attained.

go for it i say!
 

mms

sometimes
got a mate who's got a lathe in his house in germany i shall endeavour to contact him and ask him about it all.
 

gdw

Active member
dub cutting

a friend runs a dub cutting studio where he cuts the plates onto vinyl rather than acetate...costs about the same and they don`t wear out. contact henry at www.dubstudio.co.uk it was about 35 quid for a 2 sided 12 last time i checked. he will master the tune so when it´s cut you have an accurate idea of how it will sound when you shell out for a full run of 12" vinyl. he cuts dubs for the likes of plasticman and roni size so he knows what he`s doing.

from past experience you should be able to get a run of 500 12s with 2 tunes on each side and colour labels for about 700 quid. the cost decreases substantially for the next 500 cos you´ve paid for lacquer / mastering / 1000 labels. obviously whites are cheaper as is having less tunes on the record.
 
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DigitalDjigit

Honky Tonk Woman
Yeah, vinyl is cool but if you wanna be all DIY why not just go with a CDR. You are about to sink a considerable amount of money into what could amount to a vanity project. Vinyl by now is a cult medium. You gotta have a tight group around you who will buy this stuff who are dedicated to the format. If it's really all about the music what's wrong with a CDR?

I love vinyl and all but I think the age of the vinyl dubplate is past.
 

Backjob

Well-known member
Yer, it's not like baltimore club or favela funk or any of those kind of scenes bother with vinyl, that's all cdr. I bet actual jamaicans in jamaica don't use 7"s any more either.
 

xero

was minusone
i read a couple of years ago (I think) about a relatively cheap home vinyl cutting deck made I think by Vestax. If I remember rightly it cost about five grand and cut onto real vinyl blanks as opposed to acetate. I vaguely remember hearing about a live concert recently that was going to be recorded directly to vinyl at the venue or did I dream that?
 

originaldrum

from start till done
minusone said:
i read a couple of years ago (I think) about a relatively cheap home vinyl cutting deck made I think by Vestax. If I remember rightly it cost about five grand and cut onto real vinyl blanks as opposed to acetate. I vaguely remember hearing about a live concert recently that was going to be recorded directly to vinyl at the venue or did I dream that?


is that the same model which caused widespread dissent and many an unsatisfied customer?
 

xero

was minusone
originaldrum said:
is that the same model which caused widespread dissent and many an unsatisfied customer?

quite possibly - good thing I never had a spare five grand if that's the case eh? ;)
 

redcrescent

Well-known member
minusone said:
i read a couple of years ago (I think) about a relatively cheap home vinyl cutting deck made I think by Vestax. If I remember rightly it cost about five grand and cut onto real vinyl blanks as opposed to acetate. I vaguely remember hearing about a live concert recently that was going to be recorded directly to vinyl at the venue or did I dream that?
You're not dreaming: Sonic Youth does/did this, I think. I wonder if they flogged it at the merch stand that same night, too.
I seem to remember that, for a long time, the record for releasing a (vinyl) recording of a concert performance was 24 hours after the gig (Toots and the Maytals Live, 1980). A quaint anachronism in the network age.
 

chantler

Member
redcrescent said:
You're not dreaming: Sonic Youth does/did this, I think.

yep. in melbourne, at least... supposed to be coming out soon... the same place has also done a record with Oren Ambarchi & Damo Suzuki (all that according to the WIRE anyways...) and i have a 12" recorded there direct to acetate by the microphones/mt eerie... www.synrecords.com had some left not that long ago... not an amazing record at all though... goes on a bit.
 

rei

New member
Pressing vinyl is clearly more about art than making money these days. Even if you sell 1000 records your margin is very small, this of course depends on how much you pay for mastering, pressing and the deal you have with your distribution company; but essentially it is considerably more expensive, especially when dealing with the smaller runs that constitute most underground labels output. CD has its place, but vinyl would always be my preferred medium, especially when dealing with digitally produced music, as it ‘warms’ the sound and injects something into it that CD can’t- the cynical may say that that is just analogue distortions during pressing, perhaps, but it can make it sound better none the less. Some friends of mine started a label called ‘Ampoule’ a few years back, the first release was incredibly low-fi, as they had used a 'cheaper' pressing plant, had poorer mastering and used coloured vinyl; ironically this became a trademark of their sound and slotted them into the washed sonic distortions of kraut-tech artists and labels at that time, such as monolake and chain reaction. In retrospect I don’t think this was engineered; it was just the post rationale of using a cheap operator who wouldn’t/couldn’t re-master properly.
Apparently, a lot of the pressing plant machinary was bought up by operators in some of the eastern european countries cheaply after CD displaced vinyl on its original inception. I haven't looked into it but these were the presumably high end machines that the major labels used, so theorectically these should give the best pressings. Addtionally, as mentioned, mastering is probably the most important step in getting the sound you want replicated. A lot of this simply depends on the guys experience and how good his ears are. If you can sit in on the mastering then this helps but is not always possible. I have this problem just now as Ron Murphy at NSC is mastering the new 12" for a label I co-run. Ron's ears are apparently not what they once were and we have to trust others to know what we want and hope when we get the whites back that they'll be acceptably close to what we want- otherwise this is going to be a very drawn out process, to-ing and fro-ing across the Atlantic and everyone getting pissed off.
 

xero

was minusone
redcrescent said:
You're not dreaming: Sonic Youth does/did this, I think. I wonder if they flogged it at the merch stand that same night, too.
I seem to remember that, for a long time, the record for releasing a (vinyl) recording of a concert performance was 24 hours after the gig (Toots and the Maytals Live, 1980). A quaint anachronism in the network age.

yep throbbing gristle had doublepack picture sleeve cds of their performance at atp for sale as soon as the show ended
 

Logan Sama

BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
Pressing vinyl is actually legal drug dealing to most people in the Grime scene.

If you break it down to the basic pretence that you pay money upfront and receive an amount of product that can be turned into a far larger amount.

(1000 White Labels costing £770 and returning £3500)

Distribution comes in the form of a flyer (providing shop numbers), a mobile phone and a car boot. Everything is done yourself, unless you feel confident enough to just leave it with Essential Direct and collect ur money in 30 days.

The average MC/Producer in the grime scene has spent their youth selling weed, so pressing up records is a simple and easy to understand alternative, which carries none of the dangers. I've actually seen Slimzee sell 800 units in the space of one day, about 18 months ago.

I couldn't comment on other genres of music, but this is precisely what happens within our scene.
 

matt ob

Member
Logan Sama said:
500 white labels for £500 = the staple diet of the Grime scene.

Hi Logan, thnx for sharing this info - could you please tell me who does WL's this cheap? I have only seen them come in around 6-700, unless the above price exludes VAT and / or mastering.

cheers,
Matt
 

Logan Sama

BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
We use JTS in Homerton, near Hackney

It's on Digby road

Speak to freddie regarding mastering. £499 for 500 whites, paying with cash.

02079853000
 

Chef Napalm

Lost in the Supermarket
Been away. Back now. Gratified to see lots of responses. Thanks to everyone.

WOEBOT said:
those mastering machines are mental. thoroughly refined in a "rolls royce style" but the principle behind them is incredibly simple. i reckon its possible, but more than that i reckon its something you could get into and if you had nous you'd be pushing at the boundaries of what was possible in the process before long (king tubby style). i doubt much r'n'd money is sunk into the process. im sure its generally assumed that the perfect model/workflow has been attained.
Rolls Royce is right! What I have in mind is more of a Honda, I think. You’re also right about the perfect process assumption. In my view, a great deal of the “technical” side of mastering could be simplified with software. Metal work has been revolutionized in the last 20 years by the advent of Computer-Aided Design / Computer-Aided Machining (CAD/CAM). The power of CAD/CAM is that you can see and optimize a virtual model of the finished product before you ever cut it. When you do cut it, you just walk away and the machine does the rest. I see no reason why the same technology could not be profitably applied to vinyl production.

DigitalDjigit said:
Yeah, vinyl is cool but if you wanna be all DIY why not just go with a CDR. You are about to sink a considerable amount of money into what could amount to a vanity project. Vinyl by now is a cult medium. You gotta have a tight group around you who will buy this stuff who are dedicated to the format. If it's really all about the music what's wrong with a CDR?
Nothing, other than the fact I don’t own CD decks. Besides, CDRs deteriorate over time. Vinyl is final.  (Blah blah blah. I want to make my own records.)

wonk_vitesse said:
SFH in wembley do 300 vinyl for about under £300, it's top quality too. Fast and reliable.
Logan Sama said:
We use JTS in Homerton, near Hackney

It's on Digby road

Speak to freddie regarding mastering. £499 for 500 whites, paying with cash.

02079853000
Addresses, people, addresses! Not all of us live in greater London.

rei said:
Pressing vinyl is clearly more about art than making money these days.
snip
Apparently, a lot of the pressing plant machinary was bought up by operators in some of the eastern european countries cheaply after CD displaced vinyl on its original inception. I haven't looked into it but these were the presumably high end machines that the major labels used, so theorectically these should give the best pressings
Absolutely correct. I have no problem throwing money at my vanity. :) Regarding the second point: very interesting; I’ll have to dig deeper. Anybody speak Russian?

mms said:
got a mate who's got a lathe in his house in germany i shall endeavour to contact him and ask him about it all.
Now, this is the stuff I’m REALLY looking for. Ask him about tracking force and groove depth as well, if you think of it. I anxiously await a reply to your inquiries. [fidgets]
 
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