homophobia in dancehall

Clubberlang

Well-known member
BTW this piece (by Bentley) is excellent and far far more intelligently written than anything else I've read on this subject all year.

< /close discussion >
 

Eric

Mr Moraigero
Nice

thanks for the articles. these are interesting perspectives ... esp. the first one
 

dubplatestyle

Well-known member
it's a decent piece but she contradicts herself too often for me to be fully comfortable with it. it's understandable for "conscious" dreads to spit homophobic lyrics in the context of their religion? because it's just part of every day life in jamaica?

the vibe i get from a lot of "reasonable" people (i.e. not yellow journalists) vis a vis dancehall homophobia is a lot like what i remember about discussions of the treatment of women in fundementalist muslim countries prior to 9/11. "it's wrong in the eyes of our western liberal relativism, but how dare we infringe upon the teachings of their religion." with no thought paid to the fact that these women born into this system out of a quirk of geographical fate have no say in it. ditto, i would assume, gay men in jamaica.

it's tolerance run amok, really. you don't <i>have</i> to turn a blind eye to it. you can speak out against it; it seems all the more potent when it's coming from a fan, someone knowledgable about the genre and its history. don't play or support the tunes. call out people on it, especially if they want the money of our godless heathen western democracies. cut the fader on guntalk and chi-chi man lyrics.

people singing songs about "burning battyman" are not the ones to worry about. its like a klan rally versus the type of subtle racism of people mocking their cab driver after being dropped off since they can't understand his accent. why did bobby konders choose to include a pretty wack homophobic beenie man track on that 2003 greensleeves disc? why did horsepower productions choose to version "log on"? why did i enjoy a song with a title like "faggot correction"? its everyone's responsibility to make themselves a more enlightened person.

and just because the dominant culture throws homophobic/racist/misogynistic/consumerist images at us on a daily basis (gasp, corporations being driven by profit the hell you say) via rap doesn't mean that we should excuse dancehall. and just because women or people of color are persecuted doesn't mean that we should excuse homophobia or even try to explain it away.
 

stelfox

Beast of Burden
it's a problematic area and i, for one, often writing about this stuff in big-ass posh (liberal) newspapers etc, find it tough to deal with. i agree with jess that it needs to be questioned and called out (which i do all the time) but, personally, i've heard almost enough on the subject for a little while. fact is, this debate is not going to stop me loving this music because a large part of my relationship with dancehall is *in spite* of itself and will continue to be for quite some time, because, i've said it before and i'll say it again, jamaica is extraordinarily unlikely to immediately fall in line with the standard tolerances of europe and the US as soon as it is told while every other standard, economic especially, is wilfully kept so far behind by the world bank and "developed" economies screwing it at every turn (this is very very relevant so please don't anyone tell me it's not). it's true, bands like TOK, who are close to major global success, and artists like sizzla, can't expect to work on the world stage and not be judged according to the rest of the world's ethics but, as we've seen with sizzla lately, dancehall really can live without the rest of the world (cf his comments to robbo ranks on 1xtra: just because the uk government refuses to grant me a visa, it's not going to stop me hating gays. i don't care about the rest of the world, jamaica is what matters to me and i can survive as an artist just fine right here.) change will be a long, slow process and dependent on a number of factors other than jamaicans being told "it's wrong; stop it!". it is starting, though; just check out artists like ce'cile coz it's my bet that someone like her - a jamaican with different ideas - will hold a lot more influence than all the peter tatchells in the world.
 

xero

was minusone
dubplatestyle said:
and just because the dominant culture throws homophobic/racist/misogynistic/consumerist images at us on a daily basis (gasp, corporations being driven by profit the hell you say) via rap doesn't mean that we should excuse dancehall. and just because women or people of color are persecuted doesn't mean that we should excuse homophobia or even try to explain it away.

I think what was being called for was some balance - I have heard, for instance, that the leading cause of death amongst women in Trinidad is being murdered by men. Britain is not much better, incidentally. This is not about lyrics or even antiquated religious doctrine - but the media stays relatively silent
 

Clubberlang

Well-known member
stelfox said:
i've said it before and i'll say it again, jamaica is extraordinarily unlikely to immediately fall in line with the standard tolerances of europe and the US as soon as it is told while every other standard, economic especially, is wilfully kept so far behind by the world bank and "developed" economies screwing it at every turn (this is very very relevant so please don't anyone tell me it's not).

I just want to point out this is VERY VERY OTM and this fact, unlike the problematic lyrics of Buju Banton's now DECADE old hit "Boom Bye Bye", gets virtually NO MEDIA FOCUS outside of extreme anti-corporate, anti-globalism rags. There is a pretty good widely available movie called Life and Debt which is a handy summation of how the first world (via the World Bank, IMF and WTO) has handily fucked countries like Jamaica for those who might be curious.
 

mms

sometimes
Clubberlang said:
I just want to point out this is VERY VERY OTM and this fact, unlike the problematic lyrics of Buju Banton's now DECADE old hit "Boom Bye Bye", gets virtually NO MEDIA FOCUS outside of extreme anti-corporate, anti-globalism rags. There is a pretty good widely available movie called Life and Debt which is a handy summation of how the first world (via the World Bank, IMF and WTO) has handily fucked countries like Jamaica for those who might be curious.


yeah i'll third that, i saw that on ch4 some time last year and it was shocking.

good point about ce'cille too mr stelfox, it's that subtle racism again innit, concentrate on the problematic stereotypes and the dissenting voices get overridden
 

sufi

lala
2 excellent links & nice discussion :D (why no comments on that blog?)

tatch is using his usual tactic of escalating the debate, as 1 writer put it 'baiting' the artists, calling them out..
it's a brave kind of tactic which works, kind of, if it stimulates debate in JA, as it has done here over the years, then that will lead to a situation where gays can appear on TV etc.
the press are riding the bandwagon of course, but tatch plays them far better than the dancehall artists.

he's also gone for mugabe, who's generally a human rights violator as well as a homophobe, i'd be interested to know how effective the campaign has been in humiliating RM at home by humiliating him when he tries to travel abroad, the link between general human rights and homophobia as symptomatic of an impoverished and brutalised society apply in both JA & Zim.

I'm interested to hear that there is such dedicated slackness in grime, but i imagine jammer is aware of the offense that his views can cause and is also happy to pursue the tatchell agenda of 'escalation' with inflammatory & attention seeking statements.
 
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