How much garage/NUKG/grime is made on cracked software?

I was jus thinkin this - a random thought - how much do you think is made on cracked software? If a lot, which I think it probably is, whats the excuse cos I see a lot of these wearing some expensive clothing. Me personally I try to buy all of my stuff but what does dissensus think?
 

cooper

Well-known member
i'm sure almost all of it.

now this is interesting to me, because it's the justification d'n'b ripping groups use when someone complains that they're taking money out of the artists' pockets by uploading all the new dubs and promos - that there's some kind of cosmic justice in stealing music made with stolen software.

personally, i'm undecided - software synth prices, particularly for the really popular ones, are nearly extortionate for anybody who is not a hit record producer... and it is quite satisfying to see the locked-off dubplate circles of dnb bitch and scream as they suddenly have to acquire some actual dj skills to justify their dj fees. and god knows i've used plenty of cracked software myself.

just to throw some figures out there - NI Komplete, which includes 2 samplers, AbSynth (a versatile soft synth), Battery (VST drum machine), and a bunch of virtual effects and instruments, is $1200. Now you'll have to have a VST host to run those through, which will be ~$100 if you're using Fruity Loops but if you want to move up to the big boys it'll be more like $500-$1000, and you have to have a decent computer in the first place to run all these on! So $3000+ isn't so much looking like streetwear money anymore.
 
cooper said:
i'm sure almost all of it.

now this is interesting to me, because it's the justification d'n'b ripping groups use when someone complains that they're taking money out of the artists' pockets by uploading all the new dubs and promos - that there's some kind of cosmic justice in stealing music made with stolen software.

personally, i'm undecided - software synth prices, particularly for the really popular ones, are nearly extortionate for anybody who is not a hit record producer... and it is quite satisfying to see the locked-off dubplate circles of dnb bitch and scream as they suddenly have to acquire some actual dj skills to justify their dj fees. and god knows i've used plenty of cracked software myself.

just to throw some figures out there - NI Komplete, which includes 2 samplers, AbSynth (a versatile soft synth), Battery (VST drum machine), and a bunch of virtual effects and instruments, is $1200. Now you'll have to have a VST host to run those through, which will be ~$100 if you're using Fruity Loops but if you want to move up to the big boys it'll be more like $500-$1000, and you have to have a decent computer in the first place to run all these on! So $3000+ isn't so much looking like streetwear money anymore.


ok. When I first started makin music on my computer I did use cracked software. I admit I hol my hands up but one day I stopped. I said to myself what goes around comes around plus this is why software prices rise continually. A lot of my setup I bought off ebay for vastly reduced prices so shopping around solves a lot of things. Also it sounds silly but GET A JOB!! Things are expensive but sometimes work is the answer. If you've got a criminal record im sorry but its still possible. Work is easy to get its jus finding work that you like that is the killer...

I should have been clearer as im in the uk. If you can somehow wangle the postage buy from overseas, if your in the UK, punish the dollar. You can get FL Studio Producer Edition for £78 over the net AND that entitles you to lifetime free updates. PC's are cheap nowdays and even low spec ones are more than capable of running the latest programs.

BTW im not cussin anyone who uses cracked software cos thats you - i dont really care. I jus had a thought.
 

Grievous Angel

Beast of Burden
I think a lot of Grime is done with stuff like FruityLoops and Reason which need not be expensive.

Indeed both SX and Logic are available in highly functional dirt cheap (sub £100) versions.

And obtaining cracked copies of software can be harder work than just forking out for Reason. (Though I'm still hanging on to my old G3 since it has a heap of Waves gear on there.)

So the software need not be that expensive. And as Logan Sama has pointed out elsewhere, while much Grime is done on Fruity Loops, at least as much if not more goes through Logic or SX during the production lifecycle -- and quite possibly ProTools as well, given its current low cost and wide diffusion.

A PC to run all this stuff can be yours for around £600.

It looks to me like Grime uses cracked software no more than any other music genre.

A more interesting question to me is, what proportion of Grime bass noises come from hardware? (Not just the P2K!) That will tell you more about the economic reality behind the production.
 

hint

party record with a siren
2stepfan said:
It looks to me like Grime uses cracked software no more than any other music genre.

agreed. cracked stuff is everywhere, at all levels, in all genres.

either people feel guilty about it or they don't - that's the only thing that stands between someone who grabs all the free stuff illegally and someone who buys only what he / she can afford.

there's a culture in music production that encourages people to lust after the pricey stuff (the fault of gearslut magazines and messageboards for the most part), with the result being that someone who can easily afford fruity loops or reason would rather overlook those apps and hunt down a crack of logic. they then justify their actions by saying that the software they need is too expensive, not realising that the expensive stuff does far more than they will ever need / know about.


A more interesting question to me is, what proportion of Grime bass noises come from hardware? (Not just the P2K!) That will tell you more about the economic reality behind the production.

the lines are so blurry these days that I'd be very surprised if young producers were lusting after any hardware beyond the emu units or perhaps a triton at the highest level.
 

jeffthedeaf

Active member
I'd say 150% of it is...that extra 50% is for the tracks that haven't been made yet but will be done with cracked software. One of the major reasons for the rise of grime, the accessibility of the internet and pirated software.
 

DJ Lioness

Well-known member
A lot of music, namely pop hits are produced on Fruity and I don't doubt for a second that a high percentage downloaded the software for free. I think the companies take into account when they are pricing that a lot of people don't intend on paying the full wack, hence the extortionate prices. No normal student/young person can realistically be expected to fork out that sort of money, especially if sequenceing or production is initially looked at as a hobby.
 

theo

pollymarchs 4 eva
Actually

Actually I remember seeing on Aim High DVD that Jammer had a copy of Logic in his studio. Right by his computer. I was like wow nice, because that is one expensive program.
 

jeffthedeaf

Active member
DJ Lioness said:
A lot of music, namely pop hits are produced on Fruity

Are we talking Rachel Stevens et al here? If so I'm pretty sure they're going to be totally based around Pro Tools/Logic/Cubase etc. in professional studios, rather than crammed round Fruity which is generally looked upon as a toy amongst music producers.

I know of 2 people who have paid for Fruity, out of about 20 who have it. And none have paid for anything else like Cubase or VSTs, though some do have programs like Cubasis free from hardware installations. The nature of the pricing is prohibitive, but that is more geared towards major studio use, where pirate software is a big no-no, rather than domestic individual use.
 

hint

party record with a siren
DJ Lioness said:
A lot of music, namely pop hits are produced on Fruity and I don't doubt for a second that a high percentage downloaded the software for free.

hmmm... such as? :confused:

don't think fruity gets sneered at by pros at all.... maybe by bedroom producers who think they know it all.... plenty of big studios run reason alongside pro tools or logic, and that's just as "toy-like" if you're talking about layout and features.

it's just that if you have those apps there's no reason why you'd need fruity (not to mention the fact that it's PC-only). the big studios use what they need, rather than what's most expensive or feature-packed.
 

DJ Lioness

Well-known member
I'm referring to alot of the "pop"ular dance stuff. Not all music that makes the charts is produced in professional studios, people like Jaimeson still use an Atari.
Like I said, producing is seen as a hobby for some, most of whom use PC's - the software available for PCs is fairly limited. The newer versions of Logic for example are only available on the Mac, if you can d/l Fruity for free to practise with why not?!
 

Ach!

Turd on the Run
Still can't beat the Atari for MIDI timing. I'd love to get round to synching up the old STE to Logic.
 

hint

party record with a siren
DJ Lioness said:
I'm referring to alot of the "pop"ular dance stuff. Not all music that makes the charts is produced in professional studios, people like Jaimeson still use an Atari.

well... this is my point. I don't disagree that great music can be made with cheap or outdated software or hardware... there is no "standard" at any level of the industry - the type of equipment or software used doesn't mean much at all in this day and age.

there's big name hip hop being made in pro tools with ssl g series desks
there's big name hip hop being made with fruity loops

yet some people will insist to their dying day that an mpc is the best way to make "proper" hip hop.

similarly, saying that "most" grime is made on cracked copies of fruity, or that fruity is the reason why grime sounds how it sounds is not really accurate.

and I also point out further up the thread that "prohibitive pricing" is no excuse really for downloading fruity, cos it's so cheap. you can grab an atari ST and an akai S3000 dead cheap too and write great music as you point out. garageband is cheap. applications like buzz are free!

but instead people seem to say "ah - logic's so expensive and it's only for macs. I'm gonna just use these cracks of cubase and reason instead". there's no point trying to rationalise it - people just want stuff for free.
 
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outraygeous

Well-known member
mmmmmmmm ssl desk
yes please!

jamison may use and atari, but plus that to the supernova, the akais, the desk and prolly a couple modules and his studio is becoming rather pricey.

i dont even make music full time, but when i got in2 it. software was an option but hardware seemed the right way to go.

people who have been in the game for a while will more than likly have hardware setups. theres people still using mpc60s (mmmmm 12bit) to make tracks.
 

DJ Lioness

Well-known member
hint said:
and I also point out further up the thread that "prohibitive pricing" is no excuse really for downloading fruity, cos it's so cheap. you can grab an atari ST and an akai S3000 dead cheap too and write great music as you point out. garageband is cheap. applications like buzz are free!

but instead people seem to say "ah - logic's so expensive and it's only for macs. I'm gonna just use these cracks of cubase and reason instead". there's no point trying to rationalise it - people just want stuff for free.

I hear ya, but at the same time I think things are only "cheap" in the literal sense if you can actually afford them. The majority of people who produce 'grime' music are still in school - there are 13 and 14 year olds producing music in class and as a result want to develop further during their spare time. How do you decide whether the use of illegal software is justified in this instance?


On the point of Fruity I agree, I think there has been a few big Hip Hop tracks created on it which have gone un-noticed. 8th Wonder made Threat for Jay Z on Fruity and that made the Black album.
 

dj so su mi

MAKE LOVE NOT PEACE
people just want shit for free, that's all. i don't think you can ever "justify" theft, because that is what cracked software is - stolen goods.

plus, i wonder how grime producers who used cracked software would feel if their records are so widely leaked online that NO ONE buys the original authentic records... or so few people buy the CDs/vinyl that they have to charge "extortionate" prices. how d'ya like dem applez?

the world isn't fair. deal with it.
 
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