noel emits
a wonderful wooden reason
Daft Punk 'pinched' that tune in the first place.
[Artist/Group/Scene/Movement] - Eclectic Music or Cultural Imperialism
- Thread starter soundslike1981
- Start date
mixed_biscuits
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Daft Punk are in the video for Stronger, so I guess that means that they've given it their seal of approval.
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nomadologist
Guest
There are lots of jokes about Apu overcharging for stuff in the Simpsons, but that might be an inside-joke that you'd only catch if you're American and have convenience stores that rob people blind. Do you have them over there?
I remember one episode in particular where he and Marge try to negotiate a price for a gallon of milk and Apu's best offer is $25.
PS I don't think the Apu character is racist, I'm just giving my best guess as to why others might.
PPS Franchises are still independently managed, that's the entire point of them. Apu would most certainly have a say over pricing.
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nomadologist
Guest
i never liked Kanye West much, but that song/video just seems terrible even for him. it feels like he's trying to hard or something, using music that doesn't really fit in with his normal vibe, trying to be "experimental" and failing.
The rampantly 'analytical' indeed find it very hard to turn off their keenly critical brains, making every interaction torturous in their self-regarding struggle to show off their smarts. Word to the would-be wise: you are wasting your time.
Some people actually enjoy it though, believe it or not. It's not this dry, arduous chore, theory and analasis can be stimulating and greatly enhance the experience and enjoyment of these things, at least it does for me. And ordinary chit-chat is fine, and I get enough of that in my life, but some people like to engage things in-depth too. Just write us off as pretentious wankers if it alienates or offends you for some reason, I can take it.
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Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
I don't think it's just that people don't like using their brains - in fact, I think it's a bit insulting to suggest that - I think it's more a case that a lot of people are just sick of the way so many things that really have nothing to do with politics invariable get politicised. Usually as a pretext for a good old spot of hang-wringing post-colonial white guilt and lots of pointless inverted snobbery and one-up-manship over 'authenticity'. There are Thought and Politics forums for exactly this kind of thing, and much of the most interesting debate on this forum goes on there, but I can certainly see why some members who just want to discuss, say, the musical merits (or otherwise) of Hadouken! might get annoyed at having to wade through 1000-word treatises on the repercussions of the slave trade and problems of cultural identity in inner-city black youth, or when in my little rant about how prescriptive the UK school exam system is (a political topic in itself, to an extent) we get bogged down in arguments about "neo-liberal fetishisation of the individual". Now these are things that are eminently worth talking about in their own right, but it can be a bit annoying to find them infiltrating other topics all the time, especially for people like me who don't particularly want to filter everything through the language of media studies/sociology/critical theory or whatever it is where you overuse the word 'fetishisation' and use 'other' as an adjective.
Edit: hahaha, for a perfect example of this check out the most recent post in the "Modern d'n'b is rubbish" thread, it's got everything: a good old bash at those simply awful middle-class people (since it's impossible to make any form of valid cultural expression without being the bastard child of a palsied Cockney fishmonger), a pop at Tony Blair (in a thread about drum'b'bass, naturellement), something about "people who think grime is dodgy" - ooh, implications of racism there - and the phrase "privatisation of subcultures". I couldn't make this up.
Edit: hahaha, for a perfect example of this check out the most recent post in the "Modern d'n'b is rubbish" thread, it's got everything: a good old bash at those simply awful middle-class people (since it's impossible to make any form of valid cultural expression without being the bastard child of a palsied Cockney fishmonger), a pop at Tony Blair (in a thread about drum'b'bass, naturellement), something about "people who think grime is dodgy" - ooh, implications of racism there - and the phrase "privatisation of subcultures". I couldn't make this up.
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Slothrop
Tight but Polite
You should respond to it with a picture of some minstrels.Edit: hahaha, for a perfect example of this check out the most recent post in the "Modern d'n'b is rubbish" thread, it's got everything: a good old bash at those simply awful middle-class people, a pop at Tony Blair (in a thread about drum'b'bass, for fuck's sake!), something about "people who think grime is dodgy" - ooh, implications of racism there - and the phrase "privatisation of subcultures". I couldn't make this up.
To be fair, this discussion was going to be political from the start - it's even got 'cultural imperialism' in the title.
As I said upthread, what bothers me is the way that people tend to be so quick to attribute malign motives to artists. It makes sense to ask why under a lot of circumstances it takes a white face to sell black music (although I'm not sure how much we can add to what's already been said), but people seem to jump from that to attacking the individual artist. Given that the genre that said artist is jumping on is frequently (by the previous admission of the attacker) the most exciting thing around, we probably shouldn't rule out the possibility that they're just as excited by it as we are. If the tunes are shit then the tunes are shit, but people seem kind of quick to stick the boot in with some accusations of racism, condescending mockneyism etc rather than just admit that they just don't like the music.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Oh, for sure, but then it should be in the Politics forum. Especially since the discussion of actual music in it has been minimal. It may sound petty, but there you go.
Also, I wish you'd waited another two minutes before quoting me, I was quite pleased with the fishmonger bit...
soundslike1981
Well-known member
I know, sort of why it's a great example of my explanation of why I can't really take my own judgements about thievery too seriously--because I hear what they did and think "great work!"; I hear what Kanye did (with them) and think "boring". I don't worry myself that it's a matter of racism, because I can at least trust that it's just musical preference. But Daft Punk are definitely master pilferers.
Leo
Well-known member
that doesn't makes it ok to steal their music and sell it for 100% profit. if that were the case, then i could start my own label and start issuing the coltrane or miles davis back catalog. i assume publishing contracts, like any other asset owned by someone who dies, get passed on to family, etc.
and "killed by death" is the name of a bootleg punk compilation series consisting of lots of pretty great rare 70s/80s 7" singles.
Nomad's response---that some people are naturally analytical---is reasonable, but I think MrTea still has got a good point: for me, it's not the analyticity of critical theory people (as represented here) but---not always but often---the `po-facedness' of it all that I find very boring. Isn't there anything in the music/art more interesting to analyze than how it reflects political/social phenomena?
Or maybe, to paraphrase El-P from ago, `it's not made for you so fuck you' and I should just shut up & stop reading these threads
I actually agree with you, not that I don't find the cultural aspects of music appreciation fascinating and extremely important, but I have been on a trip for a while about engaging in a kind of right-brained approach to music theory (which personally suits me better), that is kind of a more conscious, heightened version of that mindset that music puts you in, that tries to engage with and understand the more visceral, symbolic, synaesthetic, and (subjectively of course) mythical aspects. In doing so I feel more free to take creative liberty in my "interpretations," metaphors, and motifs, embracing the almost pseudo-religious roots to music and it's use, as opposed to just a rational, scholarly approach (which wouldn't completely reflect my attitude or world-view anyways)... which frees me from proper academic rules, to develop a more passionate (not dis-passionate), "proactive" engagement with, and use of, theory. Kind of a meme/myth situationism, a more active, pliable theory to re-instill the conviction that's been lost as of late in music and PoMo culture. I just think about it for fun on my off-time though... but I have a feeling it's developing elsewhere by other minds... Grant Morrison I've discovered has similar ideas with his concept of "hypersigils." But anyways... this kind of irrationalist talk is probably better suited for Barbelith or something.
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Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Oh sure, I'm not trying to justify it - there's going to be descendents or at least some kind of 'estate' who ought to get royalties - I'm just saying that if the original recording artist is dead, the pilfering is presumably easier and therefore more tempting for the unscrupulous record label/bootlegger.
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nomadologist
Guest
Nomad's response---that some people are naturally analytical---is reasonable, but I think MrTea still has got a good point: for me, it's not the analyticity of critical theory people (as represented here) but---not always but often---the `po-facedness' of it all that I find very boring. Isn't there anything in the music/art more interesting to analyze than how it reflects political/social phenomena?
Or maybe, to paraphrase El-P from ago, `it's not made for you so fuck you' and I should just shut up & stop reading these threads
Most of the threads that are about something that bores me (like the ones where people argue whether some obscure post-garage type of British electronic music is more "dead" than another one) are threads I just ignore and don't post on. I can see how turning *every* discussion political can be boring (I certainly don't think it's fair to say that all discussion of theory as it relates to music is "political" and I think that's a flagrant misapprehension of what many people are talking about when they do reference theory here), but I can also see how people denying that the personal or the aesthetic are always already "politicized" before anyone goes and "politicizes" them is equally annoying.
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nomadologist
Guest
I think this is what most of the "theory" types here do as well.
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nomadologist
Guest
who said anything like that in that thread? maybe you're reading too much into what some people say...i really don't remember anything like that phrase coming out in that thread, though i guess i haven't read it in a while
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nomadologist
Guest
maybe i'm confused about threads then. i guess i didn't read that one.
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nomadologist
Guest
Of course, a whole lot of the disconnect between people who like talking in terms of critical theory and those who don't is simply a matter of who's read it, and who's read it for years and years of school so it's pounded into their heads as a sort of "canon."
It's like football is to me: I know the rules, I know how to play generally, but without knowing the history of the team rivalries, without knowing the stats of the individual players, without knowing the strengths of different teams, any in-depth talk about football is going to bore me to tears.
It's like football is to me: I know the rules, I know how to play generally, but without knowing the history of the team rivalries, without knowing the stats of the individual players, without knowing the strengths of different teams, any in-depth talk about football is going to bore me to tears.