Metal Machine Music

Sick Boy

All about pride and egos
British people act like drugs are this big bad evil thing. And sure, they can be, but...

Don't mention drugs on the internet! Gasp.

Don't mention drugs in your songs--if you do, you're probably making it up or "exaggerating"...

You can drop many people with no cell phone at any block in NYC and they could bring you an ounce of cocaine within 30 minutes. For less than $650. It's just not a big deal here. It's not rare. It's not on the sidelines. It's out in the open.

It's a huge overground economy. It's a banal, everyday reality. ESPECIALLY in the projects.

Also, no one said anything to prompt you to think this at all. This is completely irrelevant to this discussion and I'm not sure where you're getting this from. No one here cares that drugs are mentioned on the internet and everyone here understands that you can get drugs out in the open, mostly because most people who post here live in a major city. I hate to tell you this: New York isn’t the only city where this sort of thing happens, or where people take drugs, or where people live in crime-ridden neighbourhoods.

There are crack dealers on MY corner for fuck's sake, and I live in Toronto.

Have you ever been anywhere else or what?

Edit: Also I actually didn't even point out anything about Biggie exaggerating about selling drugs. You did that. I pointed out that he is exaggerating his hyper-violent, nihilistic, hedonistic persona.
 
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Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
British people act like drugs are this big bad evil thing. And sure, they can be, but...

Don't mention drugs on the internet! Gasp.

Pffffft, none of the British Dissensians have done drugs, ever. We get dizzy and hyper after a cup of Earl Grey, after all.
 

scottdisco

rip this joint please
i think the mods need to flag this as sticky or whatever they call it, as i have seen evidence of some posters discussing activity illegal under the common law of - i think - several countries.

also, i do not know if a role model like Lou Reed would approve.
he has a song about the children, you know!

i am John Cale and i claim my pint of Brains.
 

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
Also, no one said anything to prompt you to think this at all. This is completely irrelevant to this discussion and I'm not sure where you're getting this from. No one here cares that drugs are mentioned on the internet and everyone here understands that you can get drugs out in the open, mostly because most people who post here live in a major city. I hate to tell you this: New York isn’t the only city where this sort of thing happens, or where people take drugs, or where people live in crime-ridden neighbourhoods.

There are crack dealers on MY corner for fuck's sake, and I live in Toronto.

Have you ever been anywhere else or what?

Edit: Also I actually didn't even point out anything about Biggie exaggerating about selling drugs. You did that. I pointed out that he is exaggerating his hyper-violent, nihilistic, hedonistic persona.

Actually I said he WASN'T exaggerating about selling crack because he and his entire label ran crack! I don't have any problem with anyone talking about anything. Let's not pretend we don't know what I mean when I say some people here, mostly British people, get TRES UNCOMFORTABLE when the subject comes up. It's very obvious.

Second, of course you can get drugs anywhere, but there's nowhere near the same sort of availability and widespread use in every city. Especially if we compare, for example Rome to New Orleans or Paris to Los Angeles.

My point with Biggie is that he's nothing like Tom Waits. Tom Waits is fabricating an image out of thin air (which is incidentally fine with me), but Biggie was just falling into the tropes of hip-hop while continuing a lifestyle that was well-known to him and that he'd been part of well before he began his hip-hop career.

He really did beat the shit out of Faith Evans. For reals. He really did have a lot of problems. He wasn't making up the misogyny, it was all real. Sadly, he didn't have to make up a lot of that stuff because it's not so uncommon. That is my point.
 
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nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
I've SEEN Biggie's mother on TV saying they weren't living the way he said they were. Just to back it up though:

Clinton Hill may be cool now, but it definitely wasn't in the 80s, it was a fucking dump.

Ever been there? I have. It's still not that nice. Prospect Park? Ick.
 

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
My country is harder than your country.

Apparently it must be since British people seem to be hard pressed to envision a country where people do drugs with their fellow employees and can buy drugs anywhere and don't go to jail for doing drugs and never would go to jail for doing drugs while white unless they did something really stupid like commit armed robbery or kill someone.

I'm really fucking sick of hearing this bogus claim out of British people that the themes common in American hip-hop are all imaginary and just cooked up to make people look "hard"...they're not. They're real social issues.
 
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nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
I've never heard of Rapeman but it sounds excellent.

Sort of like this:

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<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value=""></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed>
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
Apparently it must be since British people seem to be hard pressed to envision a country where people do drugs with their fellow employees and can buy drugs anywhere and don't go to jail for doing drugs and never would go to jail for doing drugs while white unless they did something really stupid like commit armed robbery or kill someone.

actually white people go to jail for drugs all the time. it's called crystal meth, it's a goddamn epidemic in big chunks of the western U.S. but those white people mostly aren't middle-class suburbanites so I guess they don't really fit into your narrative.

I'm really fucking sick of hearing this bogus claim out of British people that the themes common in American hip-hop are all imaginary and just cooked up to make people look "hard"...they're not. They're real social issues.

seriously, what the hell are you talking about? first that's a total strawman b/c no claimed that the themes in hip hop are imaginary. second despite the Chuck D quote rappers aren't reporters they're artists making art based on reality. one of the greatest things about hip hop is the way that the traditional Ziggy Stardust pop star alterego intersects with, as you put it, "real social issues". Biggie was of course keenly aware of this, sure he sold drugs, was a misogynist etc. but he was also a remarkbly shrewd self-promoter conscious at all times of promoting a personal mythology based on a mix of fact & fiction. that's what rap is. see also; Tupac (the ultimate fake thug), N.W.A, UGK, etc
 

Tentative Andy

I'm in the Meal Deal
Since we're talking about Biggie now, had anyone seen Notorious yet, and is it any good? (Should maybe have it's own thread in the ALF forum I guess).
I heard his mother interviewed on the radio today, she seemed pretty cool. Very smart and on the ball, not a woman with whom to mess I feel. FWIW although I enjoy his music I was never quite sure why he was taken to be so great and became so much more popular than many other rap artists from that time period. There were a lot of talented people and I just wasn't sure what made him in particular stand out. He perhaps had a peculiar kind of charisma.
 

whatever

Well-known member
I was never quite sure why he was taken to be so great and became so much more popular than many other rap artists from that time period. There were a lot of talented people and I just wasn't sure what made him in particular stand out. He perhaps had a peculiar kind of charisma.
bars, diction, cadence, flow . so much to marvel att really . .. to this day one of the most influential . ,, . gimme da loot and who shot ya and joints like that are jus ridiclous in terms of cadence and line by line prosody, syncopation, authority, u know, ; and he had a way of telling a story . ima just pointing to obv things , but listen to his VOICE / rhythm , shit is off teh hookx
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
He perhaps had a peculiar kind of charisma.

this is it I think. also marketing, which can't be stressed enough. when Biggie hit the scene, ca. '93, rap, especially, NYC rap, was at its hardest & rawest; early Wu Tang, Black Moon, etc. a lot like early grime actually, crews of angry young men in hoodies jumping around in grainy music videos and so on. you could still be pretty street & have some commercial success. the marketing genius (probably of Puffy I'd reckon) was to retain that element but to add to it a pop sheen a la "Juicy" plus some slow jams for da ladies, whereas Wu Tang etc. was just the straight raw. without that pop influence from Puffy I think Ready to Die (if it got made at all) would've been more along the lines of The Sun Rises In the East; a minor classic revered by heads but without any of the massive crossover it achieved.

EDIT: plus yeah as whatever pointed out he was a great rapper. and a good songwriter too. I don't mean to shortchange his talent - it's just that were tons of absurdly talented rappers around who didn't make it and when you ask what gave him the edge over them I don't see that it can be anything else but the marketing.
 
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littlebird

Wild Horses
one of the greatest things about hip hop is the way that the traditional Ziggy Stardust pop star alterego intersects with, as you put it, "real social issues". Biggie was of course keenly aware of this, sure he sold drugs, was a misogynist etc. but he was also a remarkbly shrewd self-promoter conscious at all times of promoting a personal mythology based on a mix of fact & fiction. that's what rap is. see also; Tupac (the ultimate fake thug), N.W.A, UGK, etc

is this not what art is anyway? whether music, writing, visual, etc. the art that truly moves a person, no matter the genre, isn't it the artist's alterego/fictional construct/perspective intersecting with reality/social issues/society/the current world dynamic (whether that "world" is a city block, or a country, or beyond).

of course, there are just as many, if not more, "artists" who only play at being something, or are just regurgitating something worthy of a marketing campaign.
 

petergunn

plywood violin
Hahaha, I always thought CCR were lucky not to be dragged into the whole 'faker's hate' annals. The music's mostly great though innit, I guess that must be part of what gets them off the hook. Very tight and stylish sounding.

CCR win b/c they are always the savior in bad bar jukeboxes... even the corniest, cheesiest place w/ NOTHING good on the jukebox will have something by CCR... bonus points if i get to inflict the 11 minuet version of "I heard it thru the grapevine" on people...
 

littlebird

Wild Horses
CCR win b/c they are always the savior in bad bar jukeboxes... even the corniest, cheesiest place w/ NOTHING good on the jukebox will have something by CCR... bonus points if i get to inflict the 11 minuet version of "I heard it thru the grapevine" on people...

cleared a bar once by jukebox-selecting 'Send In The Clowns' (Sinatra).
 
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