Underwater Dancehall

elgato

I just dont know
zhao...

The most obvious point for me is that to so strictly associate these sets of emotions / characteristics with genres as expansive as dubstep and techno is a mistake, and an unfair one given the ferocity with which you're dismissing an artist's work (and essentially attacking his personality), without even listening to the record! Haha although I haven't listened to it yet so I'm doing something similarly ill-informed!

With regard to the dominant forms within those genres (techy, juddering halfstep and dark, clicky minimal), I would agree with you, mostly. I also increasingly feel that the means of production most dominant in these genres (sealed, digital production studios) tend towards the sense of soulessness.

But I would say that there are still substantial pockets within both of these genres which completely avoid the traps which you identify (I really felt you on the paragraph on embodiment of alienation). And for me, personally (although I would steer well clear of imposing my own values onto anyone else), it is this music which most greatly connects with me; that which incorporates humanity, emotion and hope, within a futurist outlook. And Pinch at his best, with the likes of Whirl, hits that spot for me very precisely.
 

elgato

I just dont know
i feel you, zhao. this shit is not remotely danceable. it sounds like it would seem like really awesome "club" music to someone who hasn't left their apartment in 18 years...

are you talking about Pinch or dubstep? if you mean Pinch then I would wonder whether he necessarily sees his music as 'club' music, or at least in the traditional sense...

for me it certainly doesn't play the same role that other forms of music like house or old school garage do. but then why should it?
 

zhao

there are no accidents
"Spongebob" is the darkest, most necrotic tune ever. Look into it's eyes and it has no soul. And it's the biggest tune in dubstep this year. That's just wrong.

art reflects the times yeah? not much love out there right now. but a whole lot of confusion, frustration, hopelessness and misdirected anger.

Don't get me wrong I love anger, Ghetto is amazing, but it's about a certain kind of anger.

i am/have been, one of the angriest motherfuckers ever. i just posted a dirty south mix of straight murda tunes. Cha will prolly always be a thrill... but too much focusing on that is a dead end, and perpetuates patterns i'm realizing i'm much better without -- i find it leaves me profoundly unhappy at the end of the day.
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
are you talking about Pinch or dubstep? if you mean Pinch then I would wonder whether he necessarily sees his music as 'club' music, or at least in the traditional sense...

for me it certainly doesn't play the same role that other forms of music like house or old school garage do. but then why should it?

i'm talking about dubstep in general, but Pinch certainly isn't danceable in my mind. i don't think it should play any role other than sounding good.
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
imo 'the scene' is fucked. i dont think theres any way back for it as a single entity

this is EXACTLY why i've avoided this music. the extent to which it is so insular and scene-y just turns me off immediately, before I hear the fake patois growl about the apocalypse or London at night or whatever. I even like the Burial album, but god some of this is just sonically boring to me.

of course, i determine what I think sounds good.
 

zhao

there are no accidents
what and who defines 'good'?

yeah having your senses pounded and bludgeoned without subtlety is "good" to many people. so is binge drinking until you black out.

boy am i glad I'm kind of rising above that a little bit.
 

Blackdown

nexKeysound
are you talking about Pinch or dubstep? if you mean Pinch then I would wonder whether he necessarily sees his music as 'club' music, or at least in the traditional sense...

the whole power of heavy soundsystems in dubstep is that with enough weight you can have powerful experiences with interesting/different beats without resorting to the usual crowd pleasing patterns. the problem is with the upscale to larger venues full of less committed/familiar fans, there's more pressure to resort to crowd pleasing...
 

elgato

I just dont know
yeah having your senses pounded and bludgeoned without subtlety is "good" to many people. so is binge drinking until you black out.

why are you drawing a necessary association between darkness, mechanism, futurism and a lack of subtlety?
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
the lack of subtlety is often in the production values. not on Pinch, but on other dubstep I've heard.
 

elgato

I just dont know
the lack of subtlety is often in the production values. not on Pinch, but on other dubstep I've heard.

this is one of the least coordinated discussions i've ever had, partly my fault of course. i actually have no idea what point is being argued anymore
 

blubeat

blubeat
but Pinch certainly isn't danceable in my mind.

if you mean Pinch then I would wonder whether he necessarily sees his music as 'club' music, or at least in the traditional sense...

lol wtf? A couple of points here. First of all anyone who is fan of Dubstep and who has been to a night where Pinch has played will have done nothing but dance to Pinch. On my. Pinch absolutely kicks the shit out of the dancefloor. He does this without resorting to the "crowd pleaser" type tunes as well.

None of my friends get Dubstep until they go to FWD or DMZ. Then they get it and they keep coming back.
 
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N

nomadologist

Guest
no, it's my fault. i have a problem expressing myself in a linear fashion in general.
 

zhao

there are no accidents
yeah i was on about all the boring samey samey half step bangin "rollers" i hear out at dubstep parties (i won't be attending in the near future). raw physicality blah blah... don't mean shit if there's no humanity in it.
 

elgato

I just dont know
There is some female involvement - drums of the south - subeena and dot's immigrant recordings, women putting on clubs and nights etc.

yeh as well as Sarah running Ammunition and Letty doing Redstar, Platform 1, Dubpressure with Unlikely and Clandestine - two of the most important people in the scene for sure

in the music itself though, very little. Vaccine brings something very different mind
 
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elgato

I just dont know
no, it's my fault. i have a problem expressing myself in a linear fashion in general.

not to worry i think we were all at fault!

yeah i was on about all the boring samey samey half step bangin "rollers" i hear out at dubstep parties (i won't be attending in the near future). raw physicality blah blah... don't mean shit if there's no humanity in it.

on a personal level, i agree. further confusion!
 
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mms

sometimes
yeah on repeated listens parts of this lp work well, other parts sound like they should be used as holding music when there are no programmes on the telly. Alot of clean presets, no involving developments, no strong chord arrangements etc, no build.
 

Leo

Well-known member
the wonders of the internets, where an album can be meticulously scrutinized, debated and dismissed as "over" a week before it's even released! :)
 
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