wise
bare BARE BONES
my copy of this arrived in the post this morning, thanks for the heads up looks like a good read.
rolling back to the future garage/post-dubstep/alt-funkstep/intelli-2step etc thread
- Thread starter gumdrops
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- air your grievances here! beardstep feminist sausagefest garage conversion i am a defender of simon reynolds' face i am skrillex insidious gentrification muppet show gallery post joe muggs' post pubstep time travel too many man transvestite vocals well i think it's still interesting wot do u call it uurrrban
my copy of this arrived in the post this morning, thanks for the heads up looks like a good read.
Leo
Well-known member
i never thought about this before, rather fascinating, actually...to come at it via a complete reverse evolution: dubstep>dnb>garage>house. i'd imagine it would definitely impact how you view (or viewed) each of those genres at the time you got into them, since you didn't have the "benefit" of the logical progression and sequence. i'd probably have a very different view of house if i came at it that way, although not sure what that would be.
pattycakes_
Can turn naughty
nice, that sidechained, offbeat white noise hi hat thing really gives it's some swing
edit: oops, this was a response to the blawan tune
edit: oops, this was a response to the blawan tune
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cos you were were still in nappies or not even born? a lot of younger people's (including me) first introduction into dance music was dubstep, with the wealth and quality that house its not surprising people ended up getting into it after the music they were originally faded.
CrowleyHead
Well-known member
How much of it is deurbanization of urban music? I don't know, when I hear certain...what we'll call 'white funky' for lack of a better term, it's SO funkless, that I just feel embarrassed.
Another example is the eski-rediscovery. Yeah, when it started, it was great. But now it just reminds me that people can pretty much write essays on Eski now, and show textbook examples, and zzzzz...... It's all "Hey, check out my eski synths." it's not the same vibe. I can't think of a new modern eski track that's even remotely dark.
Another example is the eski-rediscovery. Yeah, when it started, it was great. But now it just reminds me that people can pretty much write essays on Eski now, and show textbook examples, and zzzzz...... It's all "Hey, check out my eski synths." it's not the same vibe. I can't think of a new modern eski track that's even remotely dark.
slackk
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Interesting point, the "deurbanisation" idea actually. Like if you look at Rinse, I think the timetable is sadly really indicative of this. There are some great shows on there still, but in years past the idea of the station seemed to me to be one that came from the "streets" (hate that term but it's the easiest way to say it, seeing as everything's a fucking underground in one way or another) as opposed to what it is now.
Admittedly the largescale jump to rap has left a massive gap of young producers and DJs that would have been on grime or funky or whatever but I don't know. It's not the same.
A lot of good music about but London's changed a lot. Kind of pinning my hopes on the rap thing becoming something more substantial so I've got something to actually care about. Not a fan of what things are these days.
But what do I know
Admittedly the largescale jump to rap has left a massive gap of young producers and DJs that would have been on grime or funky or whatever but I don't know. It's not the same.
A lot of good music about but London's changed a lot. Kind of pinning my hopes on the rap thing becoming something more substantial so I've got something to actually care about. Not a fan of what things are these days.
But what do I know
yeah as ive prob repeated already (this thread is weirdly comforting every time i come back to it), you know rinse (and the scene too of course, like it or not) has changed when geeneus says that the trendy thing is more interesting than whats coming from 'the streets'. its cool the road rap thing has swept up so many kids into it, but i wish some of that energy was going into dance music.
Slothrop
Tight but Polite
Are you talking about removing musical forms from the context that inspired them - of making grime tunes that are written to sound like grime tunes because the producer likes grime rather than writing grime tunes that are the result of being a garage / dancehall / hip hop / jungle fan reflecting their outlook on life through music?
Or using the same form for a different function ie removing some the built-for-the-dancefloor imperative while keeping imitations of all the dancefloorish elements (although this is kind of bollocks given that this is still music that's built for the club and still music that people go out dancing to every weekend)?
Or what?
Because otherwise this is yet another specious "ooh IDM ooh breakcore ooh basically I don't like it because middle class people are into it but I don't want to say so" (edit: or at least "ooh I basically just don't like it and am going to insinuate that this is because I'm too cool and street for it") analysis of the sort that got boring about twenty pages back...
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Slothrop
Tight but Polite
I think it's kind of weirder that we fetishize rinse like this TBH. I mean, noone would have looked in the mid 2000s and thought London had gone to shit because Rude FM and Kool FM were still playing dnb.
The obvious conclusion being that pirate radio doesn't have the importance that it once did to the youth... presumably because noone's going to spend ages saving for a transmitter when you can video stuff and stick it on youtube.
CrowleyHead
Well-known member
Leave it to someone to the UK to automatically think it has something to do with class and not culture. Never mind I was the one calling people out for those 20 pages.
But no, that's not what I'm implying. I'm implying that there's a divorce from the origin, and I want to know what makes it? Here's an example... Kromestar's grime as Ironsoul was incredibly urban. Is Kromestar a young black male from 'the hood' like half of grime was? No. But he didn't feel like there was anything wrong with trying to make grime that sounded like grime 'for grime'. Whereas a lot of new producers who are grime influenced but not from a stereotypical grime background, now generally don't make grime because... why? I'm not pointing fingers and saying "OH, THEY'RE WEARING SKINNY JEANS AND MAKING IDM." I'm asking why they don't make the effort to try and join the genre. Almost as if it's a cop-out, "Oh, they'll never accept us mate..."
It's this whole "THE OUTSIDER IN DANCE MUSIC" concept that's a bit absurd. Like Scratcha saying he wasn't getting recognition in grime is just a BIT much. As is the declaration of Terror Danjah as misunderstood genius. By that right, Davinche is overrated because he got all that praise and recognition...? Just because someone's more or less recognized doesn't make them BETTER or WORSE.
Benny Bunter
Well-known member
Simon Reynolds makes a very simlar point to this in this recent blog post. He's talking about hipster house vs real house, but its basically the same syndrome innit?
http://blissout.blogspot.com/2011/10/some-call-it-hipster-house-but-john.html#links
what I do find a little odd, a little off, is this... okay they’re so into house music, but it’s not like there isn’t an ongoing house music culture that is the extension of music that inspires them. So why don't they participate in that, contribute to its furtherance? Could be that they don't like current club culture for social reasons, antipathy re. the sort of people into house-as-is. But it's not like house music has disappeared from the face of the earth and needs to be revived and resurrected. it's not even the case that it's changed so much that a Return to Original Principles is required. so there is the suspicion that hipster house = people whose productions wouldn't cut it on a contemporary dancefloor. Which is not to say that the stuff doesn't have a stand-alone charm and appeal outside that context.
UFO over easy
online mahjong
in the last month ive played on the same bills as daniel bell, shake shakir, kyle hall, motor city drum ensemble, caribou, kenny larkin, carl craig & moritz von oswald
pearson played in between moodymann and villalobos at fabrics birthday a couple of weeks back
im glad those aren't the only nights we do but i really like participating when i get the chance. admittedly we don't really play any of the new tribute-y house stuff..
on the other side of it, the assumption that house music has been going nowhere and actively requires outsiders for its continuing relevance is a weird one too, when records as out there as these have never stopped coming out - http://boomkat.com/vinyl/463114-stl-me-and-the-machines# / http://hardwax.com/64376/ (explicit dialogue with the UK in that second one with kowton contributing a tune)
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Slothrop
Tight but Polite
Sorry, came out a bit overly confrontational there.
I could happily believe that - I mean, grime is pretty heavily into the whole "are you really from the ends" thing. If you're a nerdy hipster with a wonky haircut and an ironic mustache or just some kid from Devon or something then I can see why you might not even try to bother getting accepted by teenagers in Newham or whatever.
Why is it important that people should have to aim for acceptance by grime just because they're influenced by it, though? People have been taking other people's ideas and running with them pretty much for as long as music has been around. It's doesn't make the music innately wrong...
I don't really see that as what's happening here, though? It's not like the heyday of IDM when you had (some, not all) people ripping off loads of bits of other scenes and then dissing the scenes they were ripping off for not being "creative". If anything most people involved in UK bass / whatever seem to be overly reverent towards 'proper' grime producers, hardcore UK funky, oldschool garage dons and so on...