Death to America

sus

sus

Moderator
WashYourHands said:
“Yeah, but China”

“And Russia”

Fuck them to death, sorted
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Good proposal! I'm sure that will be a very successful strategy for dealing with great authoritarian powers that may rule over your children's lives. If you think democracy and civil liberties in the US are bad, check in with Hong Kong. I appreciate you implicitly ceding my point though—and won't harangue you to more fully dispose of your dignity.
sufi said:
It's very very primitive thinking to insist that capitalist conflict is the only way.
Increasingly power and justice are opposed, so something's got to give, your precious bad actors will hold smaller and smaller (though maybe richer and richer) constituencies, desperately ignoring the obvious and virtuous ways to sustain us all
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None of this has anything to do with capitalism. Capitalism is how countries run their economies internally. Geopolitics is how countries vie for power. The USSR was on an incessant growth tract even in communist days. Growth isn't some phenomenon unique to capitalism.
Mr. Tea said:
Yes, and it sounded like you were advocating a demographic arms race.
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Sorta; my point is that demographic arms races *just happen*; we can choose to play the game or not, but if we do not play, we will be outcompeted.
sufi said:
in world power terms, the US lost it generations ago, imho, this century has been about irrationally lashing out, rather than running things - reactionaries clutching at military action as a way to assert a position, any position, but not exercising a coherent policy or strategy, as no possible effective strategy exists
economically also the battle was over years ago, China's strategy to sit back and let the US mortgage itself has delivered
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This just isn't an accurate picture of the situation. US military power is still unchallengeable in a full-scale war, and the Chinese economy is well-known to be far more precarious than current numbers suggest.
 
sus

sus

Moderator
version said:
apnews.com

Nevada bill would allow tech companies to create governments

CARSON CITY, Nev. (AP) — Planned legislation to establish new business areas in Nevada would allow technology companies to effectively form separate local governments.
apnews.com apnews.com
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I like this stuff (alongside charter cities and seasteading) because, if you're not into revolution (I'm not) but you don't love the status quo (I don't), your next best bet is experimentation with new forms of self-organization and governance. Figure it out on a small stage, then scale up, solving scaling problems as you go, and allowing other systems to voluntarily adopt your way of doing things. (You don't go coercing democracy on Iraq; you entice by creating a stable, wealthy, happy society.)
 
sufi

sufi

lala
suspended said:
None of this has anything to do with capitalism. Capitalism is how countries run their economies internally. Geopolitics is how countries vie for power. The USSR was on an incessant growth tract even in communist days. Growth isn't some phenomenon unique to capitalism.
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So you call it geopolitics & growth, i refer you to my excellent thread https://www.dissensus.com/index.php?threads/16414/
suspended said:
This just isn't an accurate picture of the situation. US military power is still unchallengeable in a full-scale war, and the Chinese economy is well-known to be far more precarious than current numbers suggest.
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but the US lost the last 2 massive wars. the arsenal is certainly the most expensive but that doesn't equate to effectiveness, either on the ground, or in the wider "geopolitical" struggle
the next war the US gets into won't be of it's choosing, is my prediction
 
WashYourHands

WashYourHands

Cat Malogen
suspended said:
Good proposal! I'm sure that will be a very successful strategy for dealing with great authoritarian powers that may rule over your children's lives. If you think democracy and civil liberties in the US are bad, check in with Hong Kong. I appreciate you implicitly ceding my point though—and won't harangue you to more fully dispose of your dignity.

None of this has anything to do with capitalism. Capitalism is how countries run their economies internally. Geopolitics is how countries vie for power. The USSR was on an incessant growth tract even in communist days. Growth isn't some phenomenon unique to capitalism.

Sorta; my point is that demographic arms races *just happen*; we can choose to play the game or not, but if we do not play, we will be outcompeted.

This just isn't an accurate picture of the situation. US military power is still unchallengeable in a full-scale war, and the Chinese economy is well-known to be far more precarious than current numbers suggest.
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Unleash your inner Genghis, 100 million baby Spens, that’s a fuckin army. Millwall would still do the lot of you

The story is bigger than American influence so get used to it
 
sus

sus

Moderator
@sufi
Two decades later, the PLA’s objective is to become a “world-class” military by the end of 2049—a goal first announced by General Secretary Xi Jinping in 2017. Although the CCP [Chinese Communist Party] has not defined what a “world-class” military means, within the context of the PRC’s national strategy it is likely that Beijing will seek to develop a military by mid-century that is equal to—or in some cases superior to—the U.S. military, or that of any other great power that the PRC views as a threat.
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The Chinese goal is to be able to compete with the US militarily in thirty years.

I don't think you quite understand how strong US military power is, technologically. A mainland invasion of America, even if the entire world united against it, would be unlikely to succeed.

The US "won" the Iraq War in 2 weeks. It was one of the uncontroversially most successful invasions in the history of warfare. That is very different issue than stabilizing a country with decades of in-fighting after the post-war political vacuum.
 
sus

sus

Moderator
Anyway—to answer Einstein's reputed "I don't know what weapons WW3 will be fought with, but WW4 will be fought with sticks and stones" remark—WW3 will be won on the basis of artificial intelligence systems. Very little else will matter.
 
Clinamenic

Clinamenic

Binary & Tweed
There is some US military figure involved in JAIC - Joint Artificial Intelligence Committee Center some inter-agency unit under DoD - who in an interview mentioned a very simple but game-changing problem: at what point will it be considered unethical to deploy human soldiers to the front line, instead of robots?

I'll find the video.
 
sus

sus

Moderator
luka said:
its not a mad idea. but i do wonder how he squares it with his other idea, also not mad, that 99% of the populations of advanced economies (ie everyone who hasnt learned to code) are about to become surplus to requirements and need to culled, humanely or otherwise
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I know this is a partly a troll but, being serious, it's a good point. Probably once general artificial superintelligence gets here, the equation will change, and for the first time in the history of the world, population and power will become decoupled.

(I also think most people who learned to code will be irrelevant. The GPT engines are already producing junior-engineer level code. Most websites will probably be written by computers and edited by people by... 2040?)
 
sus

sus

Moderator
Clinamenic said:
There is some US military figure involved in JAIC - Joint Artificial Intelligence Committee, I think, some inter-agency unit under DoD - who in an interview mentioned a very simple but game-changing problem: at what point will it be considered unethical to deploy human soldiers to the front line, instead of robots?

I'll find the video.
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Maybe of interest: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/BY5...what-war-between-the-usa-and-china-would-look

and: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/Btr...-care-about-catastrophic-and-existential-risk

Drone armies are already here, shit's getting crazy. We're in the next generation of warfare: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.114.591&rep=rep1&type=pdf
 
version

version

Well-known member
suspended said:
There just will be more people, the same way in an arms race, there just will be more weapons. You can't stop producing weapons and hope your enemy does too. Human beings are weapons. Wars are won through economies.
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Giger_BirthMachine_No85.jpg
 
sus

sus

Moderator
Dr T. Lindsay Moore and Robert J. Bunker developed the theory of epoch wars in a research seminar in 1987.9 Their theory divided Western civilization and its way to wage war into four epochs, each of them focused on energy sources.10 First epoch war was based on human energy and can be placed in the time of the ancient Greeks or Romans.11 The use of animal-based energy was the foundation for the second epoch war, which Moore and Bunker place in medieval times with its cavalry-based type of warfare.12 The exploitation of mechanical energy in the form of machines and engines made for the third epoch war, which spans from the age of Absolutism to the Blitzkrieg of World War II (WWII).13 Bunker and Moore define two forms of fourth epoch war, which they also call warfare based on post mechanical energy, advanced technology warfare or non-Western warfare.14 They further define non-Western warfare as terrorism and low-intensity conflict (LIC), and think of it as being mostly equivalent to 4GW
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en.wikipedia.org

Generations of warfare - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
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luka

luka

Well-known member
suspended said:
I know this is a partly a troll but, being serious, it's a good point. Probably once general artificial superintelligence gets here, the equation will change, and for the first time in the history of the world, population and power will become decoupled.

(I also think most people who learned to code will be irrelevant. The GPT engines are already producing junior-engineer level code. Most websites will probably be written by computers and edited by people by... 2040?)
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not really a troll im just making my point in a 'droll' way.
 
version

version

Well-known member
suspended said:
Fifth-generation warfare is conducted primarily through non-kinetic military action, such as social engineering, misinformation, cyberattacks, along with emerging technologies such as artificial intelligence and fully autonomous systems. Fifth generation warfare has been described by Daniel Abbot as a war of "information and perception".
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Are war and peace genuinely that blurred now or is there a conscious attempt to make that so by conflating everything with war? Can we tell the difference?
 
sufi

sufi

lala
the old sufi washy onetwo ;)
suspended said:
@sufi

The Chinese goal is to be able to compete with the US militarily in thirty years.

I don't think you quite understand how strong US military power is, technologically. A mainland invasion of America, even if the entire world united against it, would be unlikely to succeed.

The US "won" the Iraq War in 2 weeks. It was one of the uncontroversially most successful invasions in the history of warfare. That is very different issue than stabilizing a country with decades of in-fighting after the post-war political vacuum.
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you rather missed my point there i think. in fact the US is just losing another war in Yemen - despite all that expensive tech.
and sadly, as in Iraq, Iran has won another client regime by default.
 
sufi

sufi

lala
suspended said:
I don't think you quite understand how strong US military power is, technologically. A mainland invasion of America, even if the entire world united against it, would be unlikely to succeed.
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This idea of a invasion of the US is bizarre and like a cartoon (though it's terrifying to think of how the US military exploits it) and irrelevant to modern geopolitics/warfare since ww2
 
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