Dune
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
The entire book series is supposed to be a warning about the dangers of hero worship. 🙄
WashYourHands
Cat Malogen
Unnecessary allusion by the director, fingers spread, clutching a bald crown. The Baron has enough menace without clunky references. One of the few elements that grated
Skarsgård for Judge Holden, not that BM needs adapting
IdleRich
IdleRich
Don't get me wrong, the essay sets out to refute the claim that goes something like: hard times make hard men, hard men make good times, good times make weak men, weak men make hard times... and repeat.
And ib this I completely agree with him. The quote to me conjures up an overweight couch potato with a gun fetish who thinks that because he once blew away a baby deer it makes him a totally self-reliant hunter who could survive indefinitely in the forest while namby-pamby liberals would simply wither and die if they couldn't access their bookshelves. A kind of parallel to Brits invoking the bulldog spirit and banging on how they survived the blitz and won the war - despite being born twenty years after it finished.
And ib this I completely agree with him. The quote to me conjures up an overweight couch potato with a gun fetish who thinks that because he once blew away a baby deer it makes him a totally self-reliant hunter who could survive indefinitely in the forest while namby-pamby liberals would simply wither and die if they couldn't access their bookshelves. A kind of parallel to Brits invoking the bulldog spirit and banging on how they survived the blitz and won the war - despite being born twenty years after it finished.
IdleRich
IdleRich
Like the guy in Sweet Movie.
Slothrop
Tight but Polite
Totally agree on the main arc of the story. I was going to say he's not actually claiming that Dune is straightforwardly about the Fremen defeating a fully industrialised (or more to the point, highly specialized) culture, just that the Fremen are a good template for the sort of society that is popularly believed to do that. Looking back, though, that's only true of the part that actually close reads the text itself, which only claims that they fit the pattern of the pseudo-historical myth by being (relatively) poor, morally pure, ruthless, strong fighters, that they're products of their environment and that they're held up in contrast to "decadent" civilized societies. Looking back, though, the introductory bit does make the looser claim that it's specifically the Fremen who end up overrunning everyone who stands in their way, and it's fair to haul him up on that.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Or that Bond film with the villain who coats people in gold. What was it called now? The Man Who Coats People In Gold, something like that?
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
He should be forced to read the book again, properly this time, with a gom jabbar to the ballsack if necessary.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
That is true as far as that specific claim, I just think the Fremen are a poor example to use because Dune is a deconstruction of, or at the very least deeply ambivalent toward, that popular belief. Again, refer to Lawrence of Arabia - both are ultimately about the failure of a tribal sociey to deal with a specialized (that's the word I was looking for, thanks - the Fremen themselves are portrayed as semi-industrialized) culture. Paul wins, not the Fremen; both are ruined by his victory.
Tbf I don't think we're in disagreement, I just think it's unfair to charge Herbert specifically with that kind of lazy thinking (there are other charges that can be brought against him more successfully). His thoughts on tribal vs specialized societies are like most of his thoughts on human culture: complicated, nuanced, not totally clear.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
In re the movie
Saw it and my take is basically everyone else's: pretty good, not a classic but certainly not an embarrassment, about as good as I'd hope for in a big Hollywood adaptation. Villeneuve is, as ever, a high-level visual and auditory stylist but mediocre with plot, script, actors. I laughed every time Oscar Isaac (who tbf does his best and is class as always) portentously said "desert power" or the million times they showed the bull's head (symbolism AND foreshadowing, it's 2-for-1).
The worldbuilding was very cool, they did a great job of making it feel like a fully realized culture that was recognizably human but also deeply alien across the gulf of 10,000 years. Also a very solid job of conveying masses of information without tons of clunky exposition or whispered voice-over, like the Lynch version ("know then that is the year 10191..."). The ornithopters were cool. The shielded knife-fighting was mostly cool. The Sardaukaur throat-singing interlude was THE BEST.
Hitting the imperialism angle right on the nose was verrry 2021. Like, it's pretty clear subtext - it's a goddamn Cold War allegory - already, and it backfires; Lawrence of Arabia was 100x more insightful on imperialism yunno, 60 years ago.
The casting is fine. No problems with Momoa. Duncan Idaho is kind of a bro so it's actually appropriate (also if you know where the character eventually winds up, the idea of Momoa continuing to play him is hilarious). Really hoping Feyd-Rautha is in part II cos he's way more interesting/important than Rabban.
Saw it and my take is basically everyone else's: pretty good, not a classic but certainly not an embarrassment, about as good as I'd hope for in a big Hollywood adaptation. Villeneuve is, as ever, a high-level visual and auditory stylist but mediocre with plot, script, actors. I laughed every time Oscar Isaac (who tbf does his best and is class as always) portentously said "desert power" or the million times they showed the bull's head (symbolism AND foreshadowing, it's 2-for-1).
The worldbuilding was very cool, they did a great job of making it feel like a fully realized culture that was recognizably human but also deeply alien across the gulf of 10,000 years. Also a very solid job of conveying masses of information without tons of clunky exposition or whispered voice-over, like the Lynch version ("know then that is the year 10191..."). The ornithopters were cool. The shielded knife-fighting was mostly cool. The Sardaukaur throat-singing interlude was THE BEST.
Hitting the imperialism angle right on the nose was verrry 2021. Like, it's pretty clear subtext - it's a goddamn Cold War allegory - already, and it backfires; Lawrence of Arabia was 100x more insightful on imperialism yunno, 60 years ago.
The casting is fine. No problems with Momoa. Duncan Idaho is kind of a bro so it's actually appropriate (also if you know where the character eventually winds up, the idea of Momoa continuing to play him is hilarious). Really hoping Feyd-Rautha is in part II cos he's way more interesting/important than Rabban.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
Also hello everyone
This is probably a special Dune one-off rather than an actual return, but I hope you're all well
This is probably a special Dune one-off rather than an actual return, but I hope you're all well
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Is this a ref to what happens to Khal Drogo in GoT?
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Thought this was quite cool.
phys.org
Dune: We simulated the desert planet of Arrakis to see if humans could survive there
Dune, the epic series of sci-fi books by Frank Herbert, now turned into a movie of the same name, is set in the far future on the desert planet of Arrakis. Herbert outlined a richly-detailed world that, at first glance, seems so real we could imagine ourselves within it.
sus
Moderator
Mentat in sequels my guess
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Ha, nope.
sus
Moderator
I thought this bit was great actually one of my favorite parts. So uncomfortable and unexpected.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Weird inversion of one of themes of the book (and the Lynch film), which is the moral uprightness of the Atreides contrasted with the depravity of the Harkonnens, as exemplified by the Baron being obviously gay.
Goes without saying that this is one of the less good things about the book (as well as Lynch's decision to give the Baron a hideous skin disease, in a film made at the height of the Aids epidemic!).
Goes without saying that this is one of the less good things about the book (as well as Lynch's decision to give the Baron a hideous skin disease, in a film made at the height of the Aids epidemic!).
Last edited: