Reynolds' Pazz & Jopp essay

Digital: I'm a grad student in Media Studies.

Guybrush: In the Clothing thread alone you make several allusions to the fact that certain people who dress up are "hipsters", and that hipsters are deplorable or reprehensible people. You even linked to Last Night's Party photos and Cobrasnake as "proof" of this. My very first post in that thread was posted in response to the idea you had that Last Night's Party was somehow representative of all American hipsters. I pointed out that it isn't at all.

That's just one thread. It's come up in this one as well as many others. I'll do a term search later if you really need me to.

Fresh out of reading an excellent New Yorker article on, among other things, how many beloved quotations misrepresent history, reading the passage below felt like déjà vu all over again. Bordering on the discourteous, it is so flabbergastingly filled with inaccuracies that it truly stretches the definition of an argument—its’ being but the most recent example of, what has come to be, a series of misportrayals does little to alleviate the situation.

nomadologist said:

Guybrush: In the Clothing thread alone you make several allusions to the fact that certain people who dress up are "hipsters", and that hipsters are deplorable or reprehensible people. You even linked to Last Night's Party photos and Cobrasnake as "proof" of this. My very first post in that thread was posted in response to the idea you had that Last Night's Party was somehow representative of all American hipsters. I pointed out that it isn't at all.

That's just one thread. It's come up in this one as well as many others. I'll do a term search later if you really need me to.

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We can start with establishing the fact that Nomadologist’s first two posts on that thread were not in response to anything I wrote; this should be a fairly uncontroversial fact. Here they are (and here is a link to the thread in full):

nomadologist said:

it's marc jacobs on ebay all the way

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nomadologist said:

H&M is a good place to shop if you're a seriously thin guy. my bf is 6' tall and weighs 140lbs soaking wet, and he can find things that fit there.

fuck being pious about looking bad, i love clothes. the only thing that annoys me is when people who can afford decent-looking clothing wear tattered crap because they think that makes them righteous or something.

http://cgi.ebay.com/14-New-MARC-MJ-...4QQihZ004QQcategoryZ55612QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

ebay keeps me in designer clothes for the same thing it would cost to go to the Gap

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Furthermore, the assertion about my having linked to the websites of Last Night’s Party and Cobrasnake (the latter I have never heard of before), again, are completely baseless. Here is what I wrote:

Guybrush said:

I get a similar feeling when browsing through these [linking to Misshapes] pictures: most of the outfits look very personal and quite cool, but when lined-up against each other there is a weird whiff of uniformity about them; they appear bland and generic, somehow. The most protruding thing to wear in a crowd like this would probably be boring business clothes or something.

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Note that I did not use the term ‘hipster’; nor did I use it in the subsequent argumentation. Moreover, I think my word usage was far from ... let’s have a look at that quote again:

nomadologist said:

In the Clothing thread alone you make several allusions to the fact that certain people who dress up are "hipsters", and that hipsters are deplorable or reprehensible people. You even linked to Last Night's Party photos and Cobrasnake as "proof" of this.

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That is to say, Nomadologist’s claims are dubious to say the least. They do, however, ask pertinent questions about her intellectual honesty. As I wrote earlier, I have used the word ‘hipster’ pejoratively in the past, so why someone would choose to resort to fabrications is anyone’s guess. I have to stop here as it is getting late, but I shall be addressing the other matters at a later time.

Guybrush, you sound as if I've just accused you of murdering my mother with a chainsaw. Calm down, buddy, we're just talking about hipsters. I frankly do not care enough about hipsters or this conversation to get anyone near as riled up as you seem to think I am. You're right if you think that I don't go about memorizing letter by letter every last thing you said and exactly how you worded your posts about hipsters. I may not remember *exactly* what you said, but I don't have an ill will toward you because we've disagreed about hipsters, and this conversation does not reflect upon anyone's "intellectual honesty."

Last Night's Party is the website that features the Misshapes and many of their extended circle of friends in pictures taken by Merlin Bronques. What do my first two posts have to do with your talking about the Misshapes?? I remembered being interested in the thread because you and Zhao were bringing up "hipsters" and "dandies." It's not a big deal to me, but you asked me where you'd brought up hipsters before, so I told you what I remembered. There are more places that I saw just looking around yesterday, but I don't think it really matters very much.

If you're going to talk about the Misshapes (who are considered prominent hipsters over here), most people from the U.S. are going to immediately think you're talking about hipsters, since they basically scream "hipster" from the rooftops. Gawker.com has page after page about that on it, and built a whole Friday column on the idea,

Relax about all this: I've just in general been addressing the idea of what a hipster is and been engaging with your objections to my definition. This is not some sort of personal issue. What are you talking about "intellectual honesty"?? This is a message board discussion-- no one is taking this so seriously, we're just talking.

I think he's sort of kidding, anyway.

swears said:

I think he's sort of kidding, anyway.

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Half in jest—yes. Yet, oh so true. I am merry as a lark, actually. How could you not be, on a day like this?

swears said:

I think he's sort of kidding, anyway.

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Seems like a lot of trouble to go through, wading through tedious hipster discussions and doing the whole "quote" thing so many times in one post...

nomadologist said:

Seems like a lot of trouble to go through, wading through tedious hipster discussions and doing the whole "quote" thing so many times in one post...

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Well, now you’ve got it from the donkey’s mouth.

"horse's mouth"

hipsters are like donkeys and hip people are like horses. there. simple.

there you go.

Does anyone even remember what this was about?

Oh yes! Hipster metal.

Does anyone else think this will be very "out" by June, now that's been seized upon by journalists (this many journalists)? That's a pattern I've seen emerging in the whole "criticism affecting listener appreciation" process...

sod all this arty farty fucking about
slayers newest album - christ illusion is a real return to form and not a fucking drone in sight.

mms said:

christ illusion

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man thanks for reminding me of that... it's been on my hard drive since last year and I ain't even clicked on the first song yet! but "return to form"...? slayer I don't think ever strayed from the path (like so many of their weakling peers).

zhao said:

(like so many of their weakling peers).

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cliff burton rip.

mms said:

Anyway death were a great band, people forget about death, and the christ illusion new slayer is good.

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Weren't Death just swell. I think "Human" has to be my favourite, although I love the two immediately after it as well. As for Slayer, after "Reign in Blood", I always rated "Divine Intervention" as my favourite - I think Paul Bostaph was excellent on the drums on that disc, and I find it much more mucially interesting than the two LPs preceeding it.

It's funny, before SR brought this whole thing up I'd just started revisiting some old classics - 80s Metallica, Slayer and Megadeth, getting the guitar out of the cupboard and trying those Death riffs, giving Meshuggah and Brutal Truth a good loud blast on the hifi. I think I remember someone telling me that Neil Kulkarni from 90s MM now writes for Kerrang...
I've really got into stuff like Botch, Dillinger Escape Plan, Norma Jean's 2005 LP "O'God The Aftermath", that stuff is really nice and interesting. I was never really into the hardcore thing, but I like the avenues these post-hardcore bands have taken.
Best of the bunch imo is a new band signed to Relapse called Car_Bomb. They're absolutely devasting. They are kinda like an exact musical fusion of Dillinger, Botch and Meshuggah, which obviously suits me just fine. Their album's called "Centralia", and I highly recommend it, full of stop-start riffs, multlitudinal time-signatures, complex drum work and absloutely shredding guitars.
Also is you like brutal, well executed death metal, Decapitated are incredibly proficient. Although they're quite patently excellent musicians technically, they're not as problematic as some other bands who use their virtuosity for the sake of itself, which can end up being incredibly tedious after a while. Their latest effort "Organic Hallucinosis" is the one to go for.
In death metal circles I think Nile are incredibly highly rated. The way they structure their songs means that intensity is favoured over more varied dynamics, which for me makes extended listening sessions difficult. However they are undoubtedly the most important death metal band around right now.
Meshuggah have a new LP coming out this year too...

Obscura's wicked!

I thought "666 International" by Dodheimsgard was really interesting but they haven't followed up on it yet (it seems it's always about to come out). It takes sounds from dance music, or alters their instruments to sound like them, but then rather than make dance tracks with guitar loops or whatever, they turn all that sound into something obviously very metal. I got a couple tracks from a french band called Skrotum (err I think) that were a bit like this too although with more Anal Cunt thrown in so I'm not sure how serious they were. I'm always half expecting this kind of stuff to explode.. I'm sure it'll happen.

I think Thrones are cool too, the Sperm Whale album's really good, has lots of bizarre ideas, and I like the new Orthrelm album a lot. And Ocrilim by their guitar player too, both are pretty strange twists on the genre. Next Life have their moments although I'd argue they are maybe getting outside of metal. Ecco La Fiera by ALboth! I liked a lot aswell although they are more of a Naked City semi prog kinda band that just got completely mutant. If you want twisted riffs it's worth checking. Again though I think that's 2001 and they've not followed it up.

Did you ever check much Cryptopsy? They've got a bit of Gorguts in them too although they are more traditional death metal. I can't say I've been following metal too close for a while though really but I used to be really into it.

gek-opel said:

has metal qua metal stopped evolving since the early years of ths decade?

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I was talking to a mate who's deeply into basically every type of metal going from classic to hair, to doom, thrash, death, black, etc, etc(he has asperger's syndrome and it verges on being an obsession) And he says nothing new has really happened since the mid-nineties. But there's a band called Cage that he reckons are the dog's bollocks and is eagerly awaiting their long delayed second album. I've never heard them but you might wanna give them a go.

jd_ said:

and I like the new Orthrelm album a lot.

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Did you hear the thing Barr did with Zach Hill? If so, what did you think? Have listened to it a couple of times, sounded like indulgent wankery on first listen, I sort of wondered what the point was . . . but maybe concentrated listening with headphones would yield some sort of internal logic, I realize that there are people who like the record.