hadouken / problem of appropriation / hot topic MERGED

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sodiumnightlife

Sweet Virginia
That seems like a good, level headed post, it's probably alot better than i would have made in the same circumstances. It must be hard to hear so many people slagging off your music, but I mean you must be doing something right for the fan base you have to like you, and so long as you are happy with the music you make and you feel confident in the direction you're going in then that's fine. At the end of the day you and only you know your liking for grime and how it influences your sound.
 

outraygeous

Well-known member
hadouken are based in leeds. they are working with a small indie label in leeds who have small ties with dance to the radio, a fairly successful indie label.

hence hadoukens connections with people like yes boss.

at first i didnt like them, not because of their music. just because they were getting more exposure than people who have been grafting for ages in grime.

and if there is this massive marketing push - its not coming from anyone big or with a big budget, they are doing it themselves and infact showing the grime scene how it should be done.

grime is full of people who have no idea on how to sell music.

i like hadouken now and hope they do well, maybe some grime mcs will get off their arses and attend a couple of shows they are booked for and put in a bit more work than going to radio once a month.
 

gumdrops

Well-known member
it is a bit easier for someone like hadouken to generate hype and get a buzz though, even if it is self made. indie already has a solid large infrastructure/audience in place, plus theres a few big indie bands combining their stuff with ravey/electronic music too for them to capitalise on.
 
as I said before

i worry that much of the hate they get is simply because there's a band from a scene that most people here don't like being opening influenced by a scene that most people here do like.

my main problem is just jacking JME's flow. that s*** is just f***** up.....like even just thinking of it gets me mad

I have absolutely no problems with indie bands....heck I grew up on a lot of that stuff! the only problem I have bands is if the music is indescribably (bad spelling) wack

Sama did make an interesting point re: nu-rave just really being grime influences dressed up for a predominately white rock audience...I never thought of that....seems true *shrugs*
 

Grievous Angel

Beast of Burden
I'm not a fan of the music, but you've got to love this guy's attitude - i.e. this is not some snotty, arrogant, exploitational bullshit. It's fan boys being influenced. There's a difference between that and cultural appropriation.

I think they should have grime producers remix their stuff - if nothing else it would be a direct way of putting money in the originators' pockets.
 
he does kinda explain it on

How come you totally bit JME's style? Did you think no-one would notice?

that post but then does kinda try and be a bit cheeky at times aswell...thanks for writing and that but still...imo its not really cool what's going on (I know it doesn't matter what I think)...but if it helps draw ppl into the real artists and that then it'll turn out cool...and that's all that will matter but if it doesn't...whose to blame? parasites? the scene for not being organised enough?

Im curious to know...if you ever do a live session on commercial radio...are you gonna big up BBK or explain the basis of your sound and 'flow'? I think saying his myspace address would be a good start at 'compensation' lol...oh yeah he said he's not replying lol

only time will tell innit?

p.s I think this forum is about to get a whole load of new ppl...
 

Don Rosco

Well-known member
Lot of really overly precious responses to this band. I'm pretty staggered, I thought this kind of closed-minded attitude was in the past. More fool me!

You can't lock something up and only allow people who pass the 'respect' test to steal from it. The cats out of the bag as soon as someone picks up a mic, in Grime's case, and anyone can do whatever the fuck like with that influence. If you don't like it, tough fucking shit! I couldn't care less if Louis Walsh made Westlife do a grime single. Is that going to damage the Grime scene? Of course not, at least not if the artists have confidence in what they do.

Of course, it's perfectly fair to hate the music. I think Nu Rave is a load of contrived, amateurish shite, but I couldn't care less about it. Just get over it.

Don't forget, a lot of the original Detroit producers were horrified at hardcore techno.


Sama did make an interesting point re: nu-rave just really being grime influences dressed up for a predominately white rock audience...I never thought of that....seems true *shrugs*

So what?
 

mms

sometimes
interesting aside - there was a piece on dubstep in the nme this week, martin done it.
The funny thing about it was they interviewed the guy from hadouken about his experience of dubstep and he related a time about going to forward (lots of nonesense about stacks of speakers etc) and how it made his pissed mate throw up (which is the similar story goldie told about himself going to see shaka years back). They also namechecked clubs where to go and see dubstep, no mention of fwd or dmz, where a newbie nme reader might get the full experience of dubstep or grime, but some indie clubs where they play a bit of dubstep apparently.
The issue seems to be more that the filters that grime and dubstep are to be accepted by the mainstream are geared towards indie and the nme etc protecting their own values and interests, the hegemony of guitar rock and indie nightclubs, explicitly, where the money is spent and made. So it's 'isn't it great that grime producers have finally seen the light and incorporated us,' the imbalance of that is significant, you wouldn't get that level of support for jme, who is independant as hell and alot more skilled than any of these guys.

to don rosco :
this is bullshit about the detroit producers being horrified by hardcore, both juan atkins and kevin saunderson had hardcore pseudonoms and released hardcore records, and ur were practically hardcore at times, or were part of hardcore's roots. Derrick may might have complained a bit but then he never did any records by then, which is Derrick May's problem.
I think the problem with hardcore actually came from the keep techno pure uk side of things, i remember a message in an old warp records with some kinda anti breakbeat message in it, which now seems incredibly foolish.

I liked a few of doctor venoms records tho, they always seemed to have slightly adventurous novelty element to them back then, even though i enjoyed them, so i'm not suprised its him behind them, rather than say terrah danjah.
 
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Don Rosco

Well-known member
to don rosco :
this is bullshit about the detroit producers being horrified by hardcore, both juan atkins and kevin saunderson had hardcore pseudonoms and released hardcore records, and ur were practically hardcore at times, or were part of hardcore's roots. Derrick may might have complained a bit but then he never did any records by then, which is Derrick May's problem.
I think the problem with hardcore actually came from the keep techno pure uk side of things, i remember a message in an old warp records with some kinda anti breakbeat message in it, which now seems incredibly foolish.

Ha ha, fair enough. I wasn't 100% convinced when I wrote it, but I knew there was some kind of dismay, and it was Derrick May I was thinking of. And, of course, the UK angle you mention. What was the original tag line for some big techno night? 'No Lycra, No Breakbeats'?
 

mms

sometimes
Ha ha, fair enough. I wasn't 100% convinced when I wrote it, but I knew there was some kind of dismay, and it was Derrick May I was thinking of. And, of course, the UK angle you mention. What was the original tag line for some big techno night? 'No Lycra, No Breakbeats'?

There was a militantly purist techno club called knowledge at the se1 club, colin dale used to do it alot, people wore camo gear etc, quite fun, this was at the tail end of hardcore, as jungle was starting to come thru, it was a brief period as hardcore got quite shit, but in a way it possibly made way for trance/hard techno, gabber etc... i think there was an anti breakbeart policy there, but it was quite acceptable as a development to me imo. It was a hard club, quite apocalyptic esp with all the military gear. mover played there and i fuvcking missed it.
 
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gek-opel

entered apprentice
interesting aside - there was a piece on dubstep in the nme this week, martin done it.
The funny thing about it was they interviewed the guy from hadouken about his experience of dubstep and he related a time about going to forward (lots of nonesense about stacks of speakers etc) and how it made his pissed mate throw up (which is the similar story goldie told about himself going to see shaka years back). They also namechecked clubs where to go and see dubstep, no mention of fwd or dmz, where a newbie nme reader might get the full experience of dubstep or grime, but some indie clubs where they play a bit of dubstep apparently.
The issue seems to be more that the filters that grime and dubstep are to be accepted by the mainstream are geared towards indie and the nme etc protecting their own values and interests, the hegemony of guitar rock and indie nightclubs, explicitly, where the money is spent and made. So it's 'isn't it great that grime producers have finally seen the light and incorporated us,' the imbalance of that is significant, you wouldn't get that level of support for jme, who is independant as hell and alot more skilled than any of these guys.

Added to this is the impression that the NME are fucking late to the dubstep party--- how many style mags and broadsheets have covered this in recent months? Absolutely tonnes, and at least they had the good grace to actually tell you to go to FWD or DMZ....
 

mms

sometimes
Added to this is the impression that the NME are fucking late to the dubstep party--- how many style mags and broadsheets have covered this in recent months? Absolutely tonnes, and at least they had the good grace to actually tell you to go to FWD or DMZ....

conceptually it's musical culture that's completley alien to them though, no hooks or choruses, racially mixed, no vocals, relativley beer free, no wilful celebrities, (its biggest success is completley anonymous) it's got no relationship with the network nme feeds and eats to and from, they clearly included it as a reaction to their readership demographic's habits of dropping dubstep on dancefloors at indie clubs, in this case the readership were ahead of the game, which in itself is quite optimistic.
 

gek-opel

entered apprentice
conceptually it's musical culture that's completley alien to them though, no hooks or choruses, racially mixed, no vocals, relativley beer free, no wilful celebrities, (its biggest success is completley anonymous) it's got no relationship with the network nme feeds and eats to and from, they clearly included it as a reaction to their readership demographic's habits of dropping dubstep on dancefloors at indie clubs, in this case the readership were ahead of the game, which in itself is quite optimistic.

Yeh, its entirely alien to the current NME set up which is so white boys with guitars (and no metal or anything too experimental of course...) its slightly unbelievable when you flick through the actual publication (it makes Mojo look like the Wire...). I guess there is some optimism that it is somehow feeding through to demographics other than aging and disillusioned ravers/experimental music fans--- but the only way the NME can engage with dubstep properly would be for there to be bands with gigs and albums that work like rock albums... I mean maybe Burial ticks a few more boxes, but it still isn't quite there. The "advantage" dubstep has for the NME would be its less black, but the lack of personality on the level of there being "characters" which are easy to latch onto, write interesting stories on etc is probably enough to limit its success.
 
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