jenks

thread death
Mechanical doping rumours were flying around again during this Tour especially regarding Pogacar - the officials had to release X-rays of his bike to prove it was all above board.
With Lance, I think what did for him was the bullying and general nastiness, along with him cajoling teammates to dope or get off the team. Vile piece of shit.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Yeah he seemed like a bit of a wanker for sure, although it feels to me as though it's an almost immediate consequence, if you're gonna cheat you gotta go all in... he threatened people who tried to investigate and stuff didn't he? But if the alternative is to let them check his stuff and then he would get busted... I suppose I'm just saying "Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practise to deceive" - one of the few sayings that really resonates as totally true. In a way I feel kinda, not sorry for him, but I can imagine how horrible it was when he must have known it was closing in, and it took so long to happen, an agonisingly slow tearing off of the plaster that could only ever end in the total destruction of the whole of his life - who he was now but also everything he had been; the guy with testicular cancer who came back and showed he had the biggest balls of all. Great sport story, total fucking lie. And you could say he was unlucky, does anyone seriously think Indurain was clean?
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
I dunno much about Eddie Merckx but I was impressed by his sportsmanlike and gracious response to Cavendish equalling his record number of stage wins the other day

“Of course there’s a difference between us,” the Belgian, now 76, said. “I won 34 Tour stages by winning sprints, in the mountains, in time trials and going on the attack on the descents. Let’s not forget the five yellow jerseys I’ve got at home plus the 96 days I wore it. Does that not seem much?”

I think that we can all agree that that kind of childish bitterness is what sport is really about.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Of course, everyone knows that Merckx was better in that he was a proper tour rider and winner, whereas Cav is a specialist who is really really good at one particular aspect of the race and he's concentrated on that to win loads of stages without ever being in contention for the race itself. But, precisely cos everyone knows it, that's exactly why he doesn't need to spell it out for everyone like some kind of needy five year old demanding everyone acknowledge that HE won the egg and spoon race at the school sports day... maybe his brain is fucked from whatever primitive cocktail of amphetamines he used to win all those yellow jerseys and suchlike.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
the fuss was that they had found a better chemical brew and being orders of magnitude better as chemists was considered unfair. but why?
Actually, one thing that does come to mind here, is that there is a moral difference between, on the one hand

Lance Armstrong saying to himself "I want everyone to think I'm great even though I'm a bit of a cunt, my best chance of that is to take as many performance enhancing drugs as humanly possible and win the TdeF - mix in the amazing story about having my balls removed and then recovering through sheer will power and dedication and I will be more beloved than Muhammad Ali"

and, on the other hand

A load of talented Chinese runners who are noticed through their own talents and who want to show what they can do fairly and squarely, being brutally bullied and threatened by the Chinese state in the form of coach Ma Junren to take potentially dangerous drugs that they don't want to, Junren saying to himself "I want everyone to think that China produces impossibly superhuman athletes even though it doesn't, the best chance of that happening is to stuff as many performance enhancing drugs as possible into the female distance runners and for every ten runners we can expect eight or nine ludicrous new records and, affordably, the explosion of the hearts of perhaps one or two of the units on the track - China will be even more feared and hated than America ha ha ha!"

Or even worse (or perhaps just bad in a different way) when it was done without the athletes' knowledge - which seemed to be the implication from some of the stuff I read about Milan. Remember that extract from Shevchenko's diary that was leaked?

"Keen to impress Roman after he move heaven and earth to bring me to Chelsea, is very important to repay trust put in me and perform good with many goal - he is lovely guy and I love him plus don't want to accidentally fall out of a helicopter .
Problem though, can't seem to find shooting boots since I came to Bridge. Fitness bad with pace slower and body weak easy chances seem hard - is big mystery.
Also on my mind but is not at all related any way for sure - big surprise, I really miss disgusting Milan breakfast drink that they made us have every day. Is another big mystery."
 
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DannyL

Wild Horses
Of course, everyone knows that Merckx was better in that he was a proper tour rider and winner, whereas Cav is a specialist who is really really good at one particular aspect of the race and he's concentrated on that to win loads of stages without ever being in contention for the race itself. But, precisely cos everyone knows it, that's exactly why he doesn't need to spell it out for everyone like some kind of needy five year old demanding everyone acknowledge that HE won the egg and spoon race at the school sports day... maybe his brain is fucked from whatever primitive cocktail of amphetamines he used to win all those yellow jerseys and suchlike.
The thing I remember about Merckx is him going onto finish a stage, coming second, after falling and breaking his jaw. I think that sets him apart from today's bunch of namby pamby crybabies.
 

Leo

Well-known member
Street skateboarding is a weird Olympic sport. I spent a half hour earlier watching 15 year old Chinese kids repeatedly fall on their asses doing stair rail.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
The thing I remember about Merckx is him going onto finish a stage, coming second, after falling and breaking his jaw. I think that sets him apart from today's bunch of namby pamby crybabies.
In fairness, boring and pointless as it is, I would never question the hardness of TdF cyclists. It must be one of, if not the most, agonisingly gruellingly painful sports in existence - just unbelievably demanding, even now they often carry on with that sort of injury. Yes, maybe it was more fun when the pelaton had ingested more speed than the crowd of an entire gabber festival, but nowadays they are arguably even harder cos they race without that to help them.
 

jenks

thread death
Yeah he seemed like a bit of a wanker for sure, although it feels to me as though it's an almost immediate consequence, if you're gonna cheat you gotta go all in... he threatened people who tried to investigate and stuff didn't he? But if the alternative is to let them check his stuff and then he would get busted... I suppose I'm just saying "Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practise to deceive" - one of the few sayings that really resonates as totally true. In a way I feel kinda, not sorry for him, but I can imagine how horrible it was when he must have known it was closing in, and it took so long to happen, an agonisingly slow tearing off of the plaster that could only ever end in the total destruction of the whole of his life - who he was now but also everything he had been; the guy with testicular cancer who came back and showed he had the biggest balls of all. Great sport story, total fucking lie. And you could say he was unlucky, does anyone seriously think Indurain was clean?
I could really bore you about cycling/Lance/doping etc forever but I’m guessing people have already seen/heard enough already but safe to say the story is so fucking sordid - the key with Lance is the sheer immensity of the bullying and viciousness he exercised is epic. Plus the biggest mistake he made was upsetting a Mennonite like Floyd Landis who has fucked Lance up so bad. He continues to do podcasts to rebuild his brand but he’s broke and persona non grata pretty much everywhere on the cycling scene whereas Big Mig has kept his mouth shut and is welcome everywhere. One example of the bullying - a bloke who had slagged Lance off was chased down from the breakaway by Lance to teach him a lesson. When he got back in the peloton the errant rider got a bolllocking from half of them for pissing Lance off. Like upsetting the school bully and everyone then suffering. Like I say I have more …
 

jenks

thread death
In fairness, boring and pointless as it is, I would never question the hardness of TdF cyclists. It must be one of, if not the most, agonisingly gruellingly painful sports in existence - just unbelievably demanding, even now they often carry on with that sort of injury. Yes, maybe it was more fun when the pelaton had ingested more speed than the crowd of an entire gabber festival, but nowadays they are arguably even harder cos they race without that to help them.
The suggestion is if they are using performance enhancing substances they are more likely to be things related to enhancing concentration rather than EPO etc
I think though despite general concerns, the peloton is probably as clean as it’s ever been. Genuinely hard sport - obviously I’ve a vested interest as it’s something both me and one of my sons compete in - that combination of physical toughness, strategy, decisiveness and incredible skill is hard to match.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
I knew a lot of the stuff about LA cos one of my friends is a very serious runner and cyclist and he explained a lot of stuff about both sports, and especially about the testing regimes and how they are flawed and so on. Like Luka was saying about Craner with Bolt, my friend made very convincing arguments for Bolt being a drug and for years he was absolutely certain about Armstrong. What made it funny was that I had another friend who is an equally keen cyclist and he was an Armstrong fan and he was adamant that he was definitely not a cheat.
Now these two guys never knew each other, but I became a kind of proxy in this argument between them with Steve telling me what to say to Liam to argue that he was doping. Liam refused to believe that LA was a cheat, got more and more animated in his denials as it went on for months and months... until it finally became undeniable and LA admitted it, and Liam just suddenly changed the subject and never mentioned it again .Was really funny.
But yeah, during that exchange I heard an awful lot of stuff about what an enormous prick and a vindictive bully Armstong was.
I also agree that cycling is most likely cleaner than ever before. Seems they grasped the nettle and had the nerve to throw out the biggest champion with the fairy tale story. Though I do find something quite amusing about the idea that the drugs enhancing performance grew more and more powerful, and the tests kept pace with them in a dramatic arms race - in fact they didn't have to keep right up with them once they were allowed and able to keep samples for years and perform new tests on those samples as they developed them - but the point is that it all became more and more sophisticated.... and then somebody was able to circumvent that altogether by simply putting a motor on the bike! What next, maybe try having a lookalike dressed the same who lurks near the finish and pops out in front just when the leader approaches as his double hides in the bushes?
Have you heard that Cancellara's autobiography is going to be called "It Is About The Bike"?
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
I think that sports do have to go through this horrible moment of disqualifying all their heroes if they are ever going to become truly clean, or even cleanish. The idea that performance enhancing drugs aren't necessary or useful in football never made sense to me.... ok, maybe a drug can't make you more skillful or inventive but a) it is still advantageous to run faster or be stronger and b) as you say above, there are drugs for concentration, there are smart drugs and so on.... I would have thought that for any sport that exists there is a drug that could help you improve at it.
 

WashYourHands

Cat Malogen
A throwing platform that isnt a stick or an anvil or do i have to invent the thing myself

@constant escape @Clinamenic please include a mix of throwing and archery as a world game while optimising capital, bribing the Olympics Committee (easy enough) when appropriate. Armies of depressed kids doing throwing practice all day in schools dedicated to world peace and co-operation through the Arm. A libertarian dream turned into waves of Kurtzes

Doped up, bison-armed. Short range, medium range, deadly
 
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