Blackdown

nexKeysound
Was very greatful to play there but I had a total nightmare trying to mix at the boiler room, fwiiw. It will vary from venue to venue I'm sure tho.
 

Trillhouse

Well-known member
IMO it all seems pretty cyclical - the whole post-dubstep scene's very similar to the brokenbeat scene from a decade ago.

If look at the life of an original Uk dance music genre; dubstep / dnb / UkGarrage (to a lesser extent), it slowly defies itself as a genre, building from the underground/street. It goes strong for a few years, solidifying it's sound by producing the cannon of classics that will define it. As part of its growth it's inevitable that people from beyond it's original demographic become involved in the scene. During it's height, a producer away from the mainstream of the genre, will produce an accepted genre classic - but one that pushes the sound in a new, slightly more left field, cerebral direction - like Photek, Burial, The Streets (to a lesser extent). This opens the genre and gives it a new edge that will slowly move away from the core sound of the genre. Incorporating producers from within the scene who want to experiment / branch out, coupled with an influx of new producers from beyond the original demographic and from other genres, who will push the limits of the genre. And this in turn develops a new audience.
Meanwhile the core of the genre moves through developments and stages, often becoming harder/darker in reaction to it's softer new counterpart - which leads to further segmentation. Move on a year or two and eventually, for numerous reasons, the core scene stagnates and slowly dies off. But the influx of fresh blood; producers, djs, listeners etc, into the sub scene however means that it's own life as a new subgenre is only beginning to peak. This new genre will be eclectic in nature, partly because of the nature of those involved, partly because Uk dance genres only seem to be able to survive for so long in their original form without stagnating. And one sure fire way to refresh a genre is to branch out and incorporate other genres.

Obviously this is a very broad description, but it still holds truth.
 

Elijah

Butterz
Does boiler room have an intentionally ghastly set-up so the DJ’s have to work extra hard to get a mix in time? Only I saw that Jaques Greene on there once and his mixing was an atrocity, that might just be him though. Sure it’s happened to a few people mind. He played a really ackward set, it was like oneman, but just shit.

@ Elijah have you not done a butterz takeover? That's surprising.

It seems now they've done a few things @ ADE & got richie hawtin on, so they don't need the artist's theyve been pushing all year any more...

I played once for Terror Danjah's album launch last year. The CDJs kept skipping, wasnt really their fault.

They approached me about doing a Butterz takeover but wanted 5-10 big MCs to make it happen. I approached them with a line up closer to what we normally do. With DJs and a couple of MCs and they said they are going for a more live set up so it isnt going to work.

Something along those lines. I thought ok cool until ive seen 100s of other Djs play there since.
 

Elijah

Butterz
So it is easier then ever for working class kids to get music made and get it released and people aren't? Come on.
 

Elijah

Butterz
Doesn't help that it seems everyone and their mother has a label. You get one single, and then suddenly "Oh, I got this label me and my mates formed to put out our tunes." NOBODY NEEDS YOUR FRIENDS TUNES ON VINYL. PUT THEM ON SOUNDCLOUD AND BE HAPPY, NOBODY NEEDS YOUR FRIEND'S SHITTY 2-STEP CASSIE REMIX PRESSED UP. IT'S CLUTTERING UP THE GAME.

Come on thats how all your favourite crews / labels / events start.

Everyone ease off on the Cassie, Brandy, Aaliyah stuff though init :cool:
 

SecondLine

Well-known member
So it is easier then ever for working class kids to get music made and get it released and people aren't? Come on.

not sure what you're saying here - that kids are making music and we're just not spotting it, or that we're wrong to say it's easier than ever?
 

CrowleyHead

Well-known member
@Elijah; Makes sense if you're y'know, two years in the game or something! Dudes are forming labels within 6 weeks of their first single. I may like "blah blah blah"s music, but I don't want to necessarily hear his friend's generic jazzy house, y'know?

a flaming PREACH! on the vox issue though; diversify your fucking bonds and discover new singers, stop being so fucking classy. If someone breaks out say, a fucking Jojo vocal sample at this point, it will STILL be better than the sea of Cassie yawns populating this genre, and I MAY kiss you for that.
 

Elijah

Butterz
not sure what you're saying here - that kids are making music and we're just not spotting it, or that we're wrong to say it's easier than ever?

Working class kids are making music, and putting it out. Just because they arent the once that usually eventually find long term success in the music business, you can't discount their hustle.
 

SecondLine

Well-known member
Working class kids are making music, and putting it out. Just because they arent the once that usually eventually find long term success in the music business, you can't discount their hustle.

yeah fair enough. I think maybe journos/bloggers/music geeks are just looking in the wrong places these days? harder to get an 'overview' of creative activity when there are a million different places to post tunes online.
 

Elijah

Butterz
Remember when Lilly Allen was discovered on Myspace lol.

The fight is fixed!

Sarcasm aside I hear ya Croxley. Its so easy to do and very difficult to stand out, so respect to anyone that can.

Everyone knows what im about so I cant speak on behalf of people that release all kinds of music for whatever reason.

My motives are straight forward and obvious. I feel like Butterz HAS to exist for the continuation of Grime culture.
 

Elijah

Butterz
yeah fair enough. I think maybe journos/bloggers/music geeks are just looking in the wrong places these days? harder to get an 'overview' of creative activity when there are a million different places to post tunes online.

Generally I dont know why you guys care about what most journalists write. I can't say a journalist has ever effected a purchase for me.

A DJ is the only music journalist you need
 

SecondLine

Well-known member
Generally I dont know why you guys care about what most journalists write. I can't say a journalist has ever effected a purchase for me.

A DJ is the only music journalist you need

Unfortunately I am a journalist so I have to at least give the appearance that we have a meaningful contribution to make :)
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
Many DJs (and producers) owe at least some of their success/exposure to music journalists and/or publications (online or print). Although I think nowadays journalists have less influence than they did before the internet made music so instantly accessible to people, not to mention easier to promote without enlisting a media middle-man, I still discover a lot of music through reading blogs and music websites. I wouldn't be surprised if there are many others who aren't as geeky about music as I am (and most of us dissensians are) who find out about a lot of music through newspapers/magazines/mainstream-media websites (as well as radio/TV). Obviously journalists/bloggers aren't as important as producers/artists/DJs, but I think they have a role to play. Some bloggers are almost closer to being DJs than critics - their 'job' is to listen to a lot of music, filter things through their taste and bring that stuff to wider attention.

As for the discussion of/theorising about music, I'm not sure there is much point to it really. It doesn't seem to have much influence over the directions music takes - its more an observational thing, often just based on speculating and so on. But then again, a lot of people (me included) find it very interesting to do this, whether or not we think our opinions (or the opinions of others) are 'right' or not. In a sense its an extension of the creativity that goes into making and performing music in the first place. A lot of people who don't write for publications or blogs or even forums still love talking about music in this way; a lot of my friends would never even go on a music forum but will have fairly impassioned debates with me about such and such a genre or producer or whatever.

I'm not always sure if its a good thing, reading about music as much as I do (or even writing about it); I worry that the words are getting in the way of the music. But I think sometimes journalists/writers can have a good influence on me as a music listener - reading a passionate article or even forum post about a certain artist or piece of music can make me listen to it more intently, more sympathetically. The flipside to this is when reading a critic can somehow turn you against music you like by pointing out things the critic think is deficient about that music...

Gone a bit off on one here haha. I think this thread seems particularly 'about' the importance/unimportance of all this critical debate around music, although it isn't just about that.
 

SecondLine

Well-known member
I wouldn't be surprised if there are many others who aren't as geeky about music as I am (and most of us dissensians are) who find out about a lot of music through newspapers/magazines/mainstream-media websites (as well as radio/TV).

Blackdown supplies the goods as usual http://blackdownsoundboy.blogspot.com/2011/11/nu-era.html

As for the discussion of/theorising about music, I'm not sure there is much point to it really.

Interestingly I would take basically the opposite stance to you on this. It's increasingly difficult to defend the role of critic-as-filter, making value judgements on other people's behalf. That model exists because, pre-internet, people couldn't listen before they bought, so they needed someone else to do it for them. And ultimately, music's a matter of taste right? The culture of the critical monolith, with its fixed set of 'hots' and 'nots', whatever they may be (and however vaguely defined), is designed to conceal this behind a veneer of empiricism - 'this IS measurably, scientifically better than that'.

On the other hand I think it's a stretch to say that music writing is entirely parasitic off, and secondary to, music. It's writing - a lot of music writers write about other things too. I think if you can say something insightful or poetic about an album, or extrapolate from your music tastes an observation or theory which has wider implications and will get people thinking/discussing, then that's a perfectly valid thing to do with its own creative value. Not sure how that translates into paying the rent unfortunately - but then musicians are having the same problem anyway.
 
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