Actress / Nail the cross

hopper

Well-known member
yeah, I'm delighted with the news - hazyville is easily one of my favourite albums, everything is spot on - and would love to have the artwork on a vinyl sleeve.

really hope that the quality stays high as it sounds like he's producing a hell of a lot of material. I thought splazsh sounded a little bit thin at points - and I much prefer hazyville for its coherence and consistency, there's this amazing vibe to it that makes a really good album. Splazsh felt more like a collection of songs... All though I did really love moments on splazsh thought a fair amount of the songs were overstretched and one or two bits were quite irritating really which took away from it.

he played a new bit at the end of his brainfeeder set which was pretty incredible. sounded like all the exciting elements of that grindcore double hit kick drum kind of thing consolidated into some kind of electronic beast, it was an absolute monster - so hope that sees light of day.
 

hopper

Well-known member
just been reading about acustica audio's nebula plugin. apparently it uses some kind of dynamic convolution technology (convolution was the word i was looking for when i wrote about impulse responses) and a lot of people are really into what it's doing with regard to simulating analog style effects, like saturation. sounds interesting but it's pretty expensive. anyone here tried it?

has anybody got any experience with nebula? still pretty confused about the whole thing - downloaded the free version and don't really know how to function it - I'm kind of just clicking around arbitrarily and its lack of gui make it a bit confusing as well. For example - on the internet lots of people laud the EQ on it - but it's very hard to know the function of each of the settings based from the title etc
 

pattycakes_

Can turn naughty
has anybody got any experience with nebula? still pretty confused about the whole thing - downloaded the free version and don't really know how to function it - I'm kind of just clicking around arbitrarily and its lack of gui make it a bit confusing as well. For example - on the internet lots of people laud the EQ on it - but it's very hard to know the function of each of the settings based from the title etc

i've been messing about with it a bit. really terrible gui. you have 3 rows of text, the one on the right being the type of effect. you select for example '2 equ' which is obviously EQs, select one of the presets, eg 'angels' and then the sliders to the right will change to freq, level and q which is all pretty self explanatory. then a few sliders along you've got makeup and liquid. makeup is obv. again and i think liquid does some kind of smoothing effect, but i haven't read the manual yet so don't quote me.

basically just choose what effect you want in the browser and then the sliders will change to the relevant controls. the shit that comes with the free stuff seems to be a very small taste of what it can do. there's a load of extra freebies to grab on the nebula forum. some of them being demos of the commercial 3rd party stuff. not all of those work with the free nebula.

consensus is that the library that comes packaged with the commercial nebula is ok but it's really all about the 3rd party stuff. i really wish there was a free way to demo those. but still the free one does some cool stuff. the TMV section is probably the easiest one to hear what the presets are doing. the flangers and phasers are really great. if you can be bothered it's worth A/Bing a nebula phaser or flanger with a vst one so you can hear the diff. in a way it's subtle, but in another it's not. shit is creamy. i really want to check out the guy who sampled the thermionic culture vulture distortion box's shit but i would need the commercial plug. it's supposed to sound sick and would be prefect for roughing things up in a pleasing way.

this might be the first plug i ever buy. (apart from psp nitro which was going for $10 last year)

p.s. in the diff fx types you have preamps, microphones, eqs, reverbs, filters, tmv which possibly stands for time variant? or something, but basically means modulated stuff like flangers. can't remember the rest right now but i'm sure if you poke around on the forum you'll find out.
 
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hopper

Well-known member
thanks for the response - kind of what I thought based on the free version. It is an impressive plug, think I'm gonna pick up nebula 2 maybe? Don't want to spend €80 right now - or should I just bite the bullet?

Curious that the 3rd party stuff is better - would just mean spending more money. I tried using a pre amp plugin and then a tape emulation as the first plug on all the stems of tracks and before plugins on sends in a project I've been doing with my band to try and get that glueing effect of a mixing console that some people are using for. Quite liked the results but its just going to be so awkward testing all the options out as you can't gauge the character of the settings from one part alone if you get me. I'm using ableton and I set a key command to turn all the plugins on/off so that when working on the set I don't suffer the CPU problem and then just switch them on before a render.

Some of the reverbs sounded decent - does seem to be a pretty interesting development in the digital production though. Can see this becoming quite a big part of my production set up if I can figure out a good quick workflow for it - does seem to add a nice saturation and unpredictability you don't normally find
 

pattycakes_

Can turn naughty
i'd say go for it.

most of the 3rd party stuff does mean extra $$ but a lot of them are like $20 which by the sounds of the things people are saying make it reasonable.

theres a lot to read on on the acustica forum and also gearslutz has a lot of threads on it. just do an advanced search, titles only for "nebula"

go for the multi page threads and you will probably find all you need to know about it.

this thread is about the culture vulture thing i mentioned and has a demo which works in the free version. the demo is at quite a subtle setting, but apparently you can really crank the full version. which btw, costs 20 buxx.

soon as i get some xtra cash i think im gonna get this thing.
 

skull kid

Well-known member
i find with every tape saturation plug-in i've used that after a while it just starts sounding like distortion (which is what they are essentially), but nebula does sound interesting i guess. at this point i think i'd rather spend 80 euros on a used yamaha multi track or something

a lot of people are talking about Airwindows' Desk as being a step forward in ITB analog saturation plugs

http://www.airwindows.com/desk.html

not exactly sure how it works, but it seems like some kind of glue that you drop on every track and buss in your daw to turn it into a virtual analog mixing console. it's not an extreme effect like some of the tape plugs out there, it's meant to just subtly gel everything together
 

hopper

Well-known member
i find with every tape saturation plug-in i've used that after a while it just starts sounding like distortion (which is what they are essentially), but nebula does sound interesting i guess. at this point i think i'd rather spend 80 euros on a used yamaha multi track or something

a lot of people are talking about Airwindows' Desk as being a step forward in ITB analog saturation plugs

http://www.airwindows.com/desk.html

not exactly sure how it works, but it seems like some kind of glue that you drop on every track and buss in your daw to turn it into a virtual analog mixing console. it's not an extreme effect like some of the tape plugs out there, it's meant to just subtly gel everything together

yeah - that's what I've been doing with nebula, apparently this above thing is less cpu intensive but it doesn't have flexibility of options really does it?
 

Slothrop

Tight but Polite
so yeah,whatever, you obviously dont have to have analogue equipment to make `good` music in case thats the impression im giving,EVERYTHING has its uses .

This is the key thing, really, though, isn't it?

The worst thing about the analogue emulation thing has been that it gives the impression that a good instrument is one that replicates a real analogue synth as accurately as possible and then opens the door for people dismissing all software because none of it really replicates analogue synths perfectly.

I mean, the question is not "if I listen very carefully, can I distinguish a slight variation in character between this plugin synth and this vintage hardware synth" but "does not having this hardware synth render me incapable of expressing the ideas that I want to express." To which the answer is almost certainly 'no' - people have been expressing themselves for a very long time using equipment which is significantly less capable than what you can get for free with Computer Music magazine, and they've done it by having something that they want to get across musically and then doing it with whatever they've got rather than complaining that if only they had the slightly unstable oscillators of an analogue synth they'd sound like Model 500 or if only they had the really special magic dithering algorithms of an 80's sampler they'd sound like DJ Premier.

There's always a tendancy to go ascribe magic qualities to the gear that was used in the 'classic' period of any given genre - techno people obsessing over analogue synths, junglists and hip hop heads obsessing over cranky old samplers - despite the fact that at the time, the reason that people were using that kit was often because it was the shit that noone else wanted. If you went back in time to 1992 and tried to explain to a jungle producer that they're really lucky to be using a second hand 8 bit sampler with five seconds of sample memory and no user interface rather than an almost infinitely extensible virtual studio with whatever array of synths, effects and samplers you want they'd think you were insane.

I find it particularly weird that this attitude persists after we've had grime and dubstep, where a lot of the classic early tunes were done using essentially the same (software) kit that we had today, and still people feel that you need to get some hardware to start producing 'seriously'. Like, classic Skream, DMZ, Wiley, Benga beats are just a bit flat and lifeless because they haven't got any outboard on. To my ears there's more 'aliveness' and 'humanity' in beats that Wiley put together on a Playstation than some navel gazing purist techno tune, because the humanity comes from trying to express something real and not from the manufacturing imperfections in a japanese component factory in the 70s.
 

FairiesWearBoots

Well-known member
Amen to that post Slothrop,

I've been thinking about making music recently, just messing about to see what comes and I find myself fantasy online shopping . . . "I'll need this + this + this + this etc etc"

then I have to remind myself that some of my favourite tunes were made on far shitter equipment than I'll ever be happy with

"All the gear and no idea" is one of my favourite quotes and does help keep things in perspective
 

Slothrop

Tight but Polite
FWIW, I still see a lot of value in using hardware, real instruments, analogue, whatever - experimenting with new tools and new ways of working is a good thing and can produce good results.

I think the crux of what winds me up is the jump from the micro-level stuff - the imperfections, uniqueness and instability of the sounds from analogue kit - to very macro level ideas of the warmth, expressiveness and humanity of the piece of music as a whole.
 

wise

bare BARE BONES
Amen to that post Slothrop,

I've been thinking about making music recently, just messing about to see what comes and I find myself fantasy online shopping . . . "I'll need this + this + this + this etc etc"

then I have to remind myself that some of my favourite tunes were made on far shitter equipment than I'll ever be happy with

"All the gear and no idea" is one of my favourite quotes and does help keep things in perspective

Yeah it's easy to get caught up, when ever I start sweatily browsing expensive analogue synths I play myself some amazing Fruity Loops created Grime to snap myself out of it :D
 

HE VALENCIA

New member
dude uses 2 macbook pros, iPad, Elektron Machinedrum, Monomachine, and an akai mpk. Well atleast thats what I saw on twitpic.

you make anything with anything. basically.
 
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Slothrop

Tight but Polite
Ha, I'd forgotten my extended rant from this thread, but I think that this is a point that isn't made often enough:

I think the crux of what winds me up is the jump from the micro-level stuff - the imperfections, uniqueness and instability of the sounds from analogue kit - to very macro level ideas of the warmth, expressiveness and humanity of the piece of music as a whole.
And I didn't notice at the time, but it echoes something that skull kid said earlier in the thread, which to my mind hits the nail on the head:

whatever actress uses, i reckon the perceived warmth of his recordings comes as much from his use of classic deep house tropes, soulful 7th and 9th chords and suspensions, and more "human" feeling unquantized drum patterns, than any particular gear.
 

Slothrop

Tight but Polite
Case in point:
T
also you have overlooked A LOT of other points because its not all about the overall frequency response of the recording system its how the sound gets there in the first place.
here are some things which you can`t get from a plugin,they are often emulated but due to their hugely complex nature are always pretty crass aproximations..

the sound of analogue equpiment including EQ, changes very noticably over even a few hours due to temperature changes within a circuit.
Anyone who has tried to make tracs on a few analogue synths and make them stay in tune can tell you this,you leave a trac running for a few hours come back and think Im sure I didnt fucking write that,I must be going mental!

this affects all the components in a synth/EQ in an almost infinte amount of tiny ways.
and the amount differs from circuit to circuit depending on the design.

the interaction of different channels and their respective signals with an analogue mixer are very complex,EQ,dynamics....
any fx, analogue or digital that are plugged into it all have their own special complex characteristics and all interact with each other differently and change depending on their routing.
Nobody that ive heard of has even begun to start emulating analogue mixer circuitry in software,just the aesthetics,it will come but im sure it will be a crap half hearted effort like most pretend synth plugins are.
they should be called PST synths, P for pretend not virtual.

Every piece of outboard gear has its own sound ,reverbs,modulation effects etc
real room reverb, this in itself companies have spent decades trying to emulate and not even got close in my opinion, even the best attempts like Quantec and EMT only scratch the surface.

analogue EQ is currently impossible in theory to be emulated digitally,quite intense maths shit involed in this if youre really that interested,you could look it up...good luck.

your soundcard will always make things sound like its come from THAT soundcard..they ALL impose their different sound characteristics onto whatever comes out of them they are far from being totally neutral devices.

all the components of a circuit like resistors and capacitors subtley differ from each other depending on their quality but even the most high quality milatary spec ones are never EXACTLY the same.

no two analogue synths can ever be built exactly the same,there are tiny human/automated errors in building the circuits,tweaking the trimpots for example which is usually done manually in a lot of analogue shit.
just compare the sound of 2 808 drum machines next to each other and you will see what I mean,you always thought an 808 was an 808 right?
same goes for 303`s they all sound subltey different,different voltage scaling of the oscillator is usually quite noticable.

VST plugins are restricted by a finite number of calculations per second these factors are WAY beyond their CURRENT capability.
The thing is, pretty much all of this is engineering, not music. Maybe a given 808 is unique and doesn't sound exactly like any other 808. That'd noticeable if you're doing a blind test between two bass drum sounds, but how does it make any difference to the music over using a samped 808 kick? I mean, it's one thing to think a tune sounds good because of some specific sonic characteristics of the sounds that are there, but surely no-one thinks a tune sounds good because the kick drum sounds slightly different from the kick drum on a different drum machine that wasn't used on the track, or because the synth sounds slightly different from how it sounded an hour before the track was recorded.

The fact that something's hard to model (and tbh, I'm not even sure how up to date RDJ is on modern circuit modelling software) is only relevant if it's desirable in the first place. Surely the fact that a synth drifts out of tune depending on the effect of temperature on the components rather than according to a pseudorandom algorithm is only relevant if I'm planning to do pitch bends with a hairdryer?

(And why does this uniqueness suddenly become a bad thing when it's applied to soundcards?)

Then there is the question of the physicallity of the instrument this affects the way a human will emotionally interact with it and therfore affect what they will actually do with it! often overlooked from the maths heads,this is probably the biggest factor I think.
for example the smell of analogue stuff as well as the look of it puts you in a certain mental state which is very different from looking at a computer screen.
This seems to be the key, tbh. (And it's also why I'm kind of sceptical about 'real analogue synth modules' that need a PC to run the patch editor...)
 
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