The Weeknd

[CrowleyHead]

I assume Dad's company also has an ad budget that mags like the Source are keen to get a sniff of.

Having read the Source millions of times, you'd think legitimate advertising would be a priority, but it's not! Since '01 or so, it's mostly been backwoods going-nowhere acts, though I remember when Darkchild and 3-6 were taking out full-page ads...

 

[drilla]

http://hulkshare.com/m68ikdr27s58

^ Thursday chopped and screwed by OG Ron C

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[gumdrops]

i like the older weekend stuff i heard but its basically like the dream as played by the xx

 

[Corpsey]

I prefer to think of them as The Dream... ON ACID!

I'm bumping the shittyfuckshit out of ''House of Balloons''... sometimes its Drake-isms (or are those really Dream-isms? or even R Kelly-isms?) annoy me a little bit but ''What You Need'' ''Morning'' and ''Coming Down'' are all brilliant. ''House Of Balloons'' (which lifts from Siouoxsie and The Banshees) offers me a way to be into an indie tune without feeling all dirty inside (except in a healthy, quasi-rapist fantasist way).

I'm leaving ''Thursday'' until I have given the first one a bit more play.

 

[CrowleyHead]

Well Drake's cleary borrowed a lot of his swag from Dream. I mean, listen to a song like "Fancy". That whole beatless, 'dreamy' borderline meandering quality? Drake rode that shit to TOWN.

 

[tox]

Well Drake's cleary borrowed a lot of his swag from Dream. I mean, listen to a song like "Fancy". That whole beatless, 'dreamy' borderline meandering quality? Drake rode that shit to TOWN.

Oh really? I thought So Far Gone had a fair bit of that beatless meandering stuff on it, and came out before Love vs. Money.

I agree that 40's production shares a particular style with with The-Dream though.

 

[CrowleyHead]

I think we've stumbled onto something here; this is all going to sound convoluted...

I remember Noz remarked that he thought "So Far Gone" was the first post 808's mixtape. While that makes sense, it misses something... 808's was not ethereal so much as it was grandiose. And while Drake is TOTALLY grandiose, there's also this dreamy wistful quality. Like, in the last two Kanye albums, the theme is kind of like KANYE IST KRIEG, and he's suffering through the prison of his fame. Whereas Drake can't actually reach where he wants to go, and everything feels more like a dream.

(It's why I'm shocked at how shitty the Boi-1da produced track is compared to Marvin's and "Dreams Money Can Buy". Both of those fit the Drake aesthetic perfectly, and one is just a fucking freestyle. Then, he puts out some imitation Roscoe Dash shite as his OFFICIAL single? Huh?)

I always associate it with Dream's more Prince-like moments... Dream wants to be Prince more than he wants to be Michael (hence the obvious Vanity 6 references of his work with Elektrik Red and Christina Milian), but the big difference is where Prince had a sort of desire to truly be one with his lovers, Dream analyzes, he's very cut-off from the subjects. Like "Sweat It Out", he never actually talks about what he's feeling, but he observes every significant detail of his encounters. I think it's the Virgo in him, he's like a scientist.

But to the point: this disassociation is the key to the post-Dream sound; This is a field of music where these boys are singing, but the detachment is key to their performance. They're all isolated from what's going on around them through their respective highs, or just an inability to comprehend, and so they're almost having out-of-body experiences.

To kinda hammer this flimsy point together, the ultimate triumph is probably Wayne's "Single". It really is Wayne taking the Drake formula and going to fucking town with it. He tantrums and sneers all the way through, in a way Drake's never had the confidence to be so openly; funny, for an actor. Wayne has no difficulty describing his pure selfishness and wallowing in it in both a celebratory and miserable existence, punctuated by constant lighters and puffs that mirror both the 'cloudy' sound of 40's beat, and Wayne's inability to show real feeling.

That's all.

 

[mistersloane]

That's a nice breakdown of it Crowley, to me though the sound is just a symptom of how everyone in the US is on prescription pills; the detachment, the dreaminess, the auto-pleasure of the sound.

 

[routes]

Dream wants to be Prince more than he wants to be Michael (hence the obvious Vanity 6 references of his work with Elektrik Red and Christina Milian), but the big difference is where Prince had a sort of desire to truly be one with his lovers, Dream analyzes, he's very cut-off from the subjects. Like "Sweat It Out", he never actually talks about what he's feeling, but he observes every significant detail of his encounters. I think it's the Virgo in him, he's like a scientist.

i like this. but if u listen to the new one '1977', The Dream is basically doing Kellz. there's very little flamboyance in the music, only residual traces of the Prince fetish. it's numb and sexless.

 

[gumdrops]

i have little sympathy with dream's 'detachment' or his inability to express much feelings - it makes him quite unlikeable. prince used to do something similar at times but thats nothing compared to how r kelly and a lot of other modern R&B singers are so in love with themselves and also have that hip hop bravado swagger thing happening that means theyre doubly unable to express anything that doesnt sound like a boring forensic breakdown of what happened.

 

[CrowleyHead]

@gumdrops; That's a little interesting, because right now Trey Songz kind of has the duality. He's weak on the 'overall' package. But the "I Wish" record was actually really good from him, it was both observant and still had his own anxieties running through it. Other than that record, I can't remember many 'personal' R&B records.

@routes; I never found the 'flamboyance' to be something he gained from Prince, I always associated that with Kells. To me, R. Kelly's very over-inflated and ridiculous; both purposefully as a sort of comedy, and his own over-zealous stupidity.

 

[gumdrops]

apart from fuck yr brains out and a few others i dont think dreams persona or lyrics are really prince-like. he hasnt got the wit and isnt that sharp or funny. hes not even charming. hes basically picked up the mantle from where closet-era r kelly left off and become more obnoxious/ridiculous/stupid/funny for being stupid. i think a lot of r&b is personal in the sense that it has become, at least in the hands of kellz and dream, much more confessional, to the point where i wish they would edit themselves/STFU occasionally cos its like they lack an internal censor but its rarely anything that interesting, its just details, observational or material, mostly just inane. but it does somehow feel confesional is cos its got that casual conversational post-rap delivery to it. ive never really liked the dream that much though cos hes too clogged up by wannabe rapper swagger. i know a lot of ppl like to read a lot into that but it just bugs me (great as fancy, yamaha and a few others are).

 

[CrowleyHead]

There are THINGS that he does that shows he's in love with Prince. It's really hard to be dream though.

A) In order to be a true 'success' in R&B, he often has to make really pandering songs. The guy can write a really great song like 'Baby' for someone else, but in order to get played as an R&B artist, he has to make trite like "Shawty Is The Shit" and "Make-Up Bag".

B) While I agree R. Kelly did drastically lower the bar for R&B wit, I think he did it because people knew he was in jest. Stuff like the songs he wrote for Ronald Isley, they were ludicrous, but that's what was their charm. Unfortunately, more modern people latched onto the stupid/playful elements, and that's what they stick with. Doesn't help that a lot of 'intelligent' R&B isn't necessarily good these days. Let's be fair, I'll take most of Jeremih's singles over say, any fucking thing Musiq Soulchild spills out.

C) While Dream doesn't display an obvious enough debt to Prince, he often grafts characteristics. But the ultimate issue is that he's struggling between the fact that he has this really dumb outward persona (a hang-over for scoring a hit with "Shawty"), and can't convey any other elements in his own make-up.

 

[gumdrops]

in order to get played as an R&B artist, he has to make trite like "Shawty Is The Shit" and "Make-Up Bag".

i dont know if i really buy into this anymore. it would explain how someone who can write great songs for others ends up writing stupid stuff for himself, or it might just be that he likes playing dumb (i think thats whats most offensive, that it seems fake, and so generic) and playing 'thug'.

 

[baboon2004]

Really looking forward to seeing him/them live in a couple of weeks' time when he/they come to Europe.

Am I going mad, or is there a Perry Farrell sample right at the beginning of the song 'House of Balloons', before the 'Happy House' sample kicks in?

 

[boardsy]

Weeknd on Jools Holland right now, sounding unexpectedly rock-bandy, with a real drummer and guitars. Also Lana Del Ray (wearing an old sweatshirt and jeans), Soul II Soul (back to life, also with a real drummer) and Nona Hendryx of LaBelle! Oh, and Jools, unfortunately.

 

[baboon2004]

Sometimes it almost seems as if Jools Holland actually likes good music. Most of the time he does a good job of hiding it though