zhao

there are no accidents
ok so what exactly is Lana Del Ray supposed to be inauthentically trying to replicate?? I've heard a range of unrelated suggestions in this thread and the other one she was talked about in. (Chris Isak/ Nancy Sinatra/ Gospel music from the 30's to the 60's, David Lynch)

I only really like 3 of her songs I've heard the rest I find really dull but didn't strike me as inauthentic to anything just a bit dull.

replication / imitation is only one aspect of the inauthentic.
it is possible to make something more or less "original" in an inauthentic way as well.
(not that LDR can necessarily be accused of very much originality, what with the Greek song and all)

i think, correct me if i'm off, to most people the entire aesthetic package with its cultural quotations, just seems carefully calculated; so well positioned within current pop landscape/market place that it seems to have come from, or at least heavily informed by, a big label think tank / focus group.
 
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Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
i think, correct me if i'm off, to most people the entire aesthetic package with its cultural quotations, just seems carefully calculated; so well positioned within current pop landscape/market place that it seems to have come from, or at least heavily informed by, a big label think tank / focus group.

Is it unthinkable that she came up with it, or most of it, by herself?
 

mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
Yeah Rich I was referring to real life - which is as horrible as Scritti Politti.

I know plenty of girls just like Lana Del Rey, they live in this Lynchian world and are gorgeous and faux-doomed and no, you can't meet any of them.

I don't think she's in any way inauthentic, I think she's just really into that aesthetic, and there are lots of people around who were into that before she came along, and she either saw that and thought it was a good idea or did it herself. Made loads of money from it and wrote a couple of genuinely good pop songs. I say well done. I don't think it means anything. I genuinely don't care. See craner for why pop can be enjoyed.

And that gospel album you posted zhao is shit.
 

zhao

there are no accidents
whether she came up with it or not is beside the point. it's so cliche and contrived that it may well have come from focus groups.
 
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Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
whether she came up with it or not is beside the point.

How could whether she's created her own image and sound possibly be 'beside the point' in a discussion about 'authenticity'? Even if you think what she's doing is derivative, it must be less 'inauthentic' if it's wholly her own doing, mustn't it?

Edit: also, I had a funny feeling all this Scritti chat would bring swears out of the woodwork.
 

zhao

there are no accidents
quite a while ago when i met in real life an old school dissensus person, so old school he was one of the founders of the site which came before dissensus, what was it called, British Rave Nerds? i don't remember because i was never there. anyhow, when i met this person, he listed 5 (or was it 7?) implicit golden commandments which are unquestioningly accepted by everyone, and form a kind of hidden ideological foundation of this place.

either number 1 or number 2, i think it was number 1, was that "pop and street music is holier than academic and 'serious' music".

and i can't be certain, but pretty sure another one had something to do with anti-rockism.

so what happened here can be explained by these written-in-stone rules and their ruthless enforcement: i recklessly uttered the unspeakable, BBQ'd the sacred cow, blasphemed against the latest populist idol, and pissed on the alter of tacky throwaway flavor-of-the-month culture... (as pure street and champion of the people as Flora Moulton was, i guess with the passage of time she has become "official culture", after all, her music comprised the only CD to represent the USA in the vast and prestigious catalog of Ocora / Auvidis) thus inciting the collective wrath which we all bore witness. ...off to the gulag i go :eek:
 
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Ory

warp drive
either number 1 or number 2, i think it was number 1, was that "pop and street music is holier than academic and 'serious' music".

don't know about the old days, but dissensus isn't very popist, is it?

ILX, on the other hand...
 

swears

preppy-kei
Yeah Rich I was referring to real life - which is as horrible as Scritti Politti.

If it's any consolation, in that interview with K-Punk, Gartside seems genuinely heart-brokenly ashamed of the pop-era Scritti. Which Is a shame, I think. He kind of constructed a (yuppie/intellectual/pop star) persona himself, didn't he?

I know plenty of girls just like Lana Del Rey, they live in this Lynchian world and are gorgeous and faux-doomed and no, you can't meet any of them.

It's cool when people really get into something like that, Japanese style. Nail down all the details and everything. But not if it's something that's been done to death like mods or hippies. I am a bit obsessive about clothes, but still dress like a schlub in public half the time. It must be exhausting to do it 24/7. My mate's brother is into that whole Gogol Bordello gypsy-punk thing. He dresses like an Italian immigrant in 1920s New York: plays the accordian, has a twirly moustache, etc... I think it's all a bit cheesy, but admire the effort. If you're a dedicated enough fake, do you eventually become authentic?

Kinda in the middle on this debate overall, I think Zhao has a point about authenticity being important sometimes, he's over-simplifying it a bit, though.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
I mostly agree w/zhao (if not, a/p/u, how he argues his points). picking at the semantics of "authenticity" is forest for trees tho. manufacturing personas is a key tenet of pop. ok. the central point in authenticity + appropriation isn't whether it is or not, it's how you do it. do you respect the culture you're borrowing from, especially if you're coming from a position of relative privilege? are you giving something back (culturally or literally $-wise, by putting people on)? led zeppelin ripping off blues guys w/o crediting them or madonna strip-mining the gay underground is fucked up, but there's a million ways to take influences from music you love + be respectful about it. as far as l.d.r., I dunno about her music either way but there's something very loathsome about a girl with a millionaire father, who went to posh boarding school, making a selling point out of living in a trailer park. (I'm not into her appropriation of rap either but she's hardly the first, or millionth, person to do that so whatever. tho, unlike eminem - or the beastie boys, or kreayshawn for that matter - she hasn't/isn't exactly paying any dues back to rap for the cutural value she's extracting out of it). she's basically an american version of lily allen's (or mike skinner's I guess?) fake chav act. but some people liked lily allen too so there you go.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
that whole Gogol Bordello gypsy-punk thing

no, those guys are the worst. I seen too many crusty punk train hopping kids get into this faux 1930s, great depression hobo thing, dressing like tom joad + playing old-time music. like diy tom waits. it's a close relative of fake gypsy thing. eugene whatshisname is yunno, part roma, ok, but like I'm saying above, I have very little tolerance for new york (or whatever cool city) hipsters playing at romanticized gypsy (especially while, yunno, many actual roma live in dire poverty/are the target of serious racism). bela bartok didn't just grow a stupid mustache + pick up an accordian. he did a shitload of ethnological research on magyar + romani folk music.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
my favorite pop star appropriation moment of recent years is definitely gwen stefani's silent harajuku girl sidekicks. look, cute asian dolls to accentuate my chic.
 

luka

Well-known member
it is true. i have seen it with my own eyes. they get a lot of love on the marae. trust me. the maori have a deep and abiding connection to pop reggae and waitangi day is bob marleys birthday.
 

slowtrain

Well-known member
harmony korine can suck a cheetahs dick in hell

you cannot still hold a good rep on the basis of two good movies that came out like 20 years ago
 

luka

Well-known member
i was sitting in front of a girl on the bus he kept playing video games over and over. she was wearing a velvet jacket with gold braid.
 
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