Euro 2012

[IdleRich]

Seems weird those McDonald's adverts where they say "official provider of escorts for the players at the Euros" - I didn't realise that that kind of thing was so openly discussed now.

 

[paolo]

I've not seen Ireland play recently but I'd heard that they've been very defensive and organised what with the Italian manager, so I thought that they'd do better. Can't see them getting anything from Spain or Italy

 

[yyaldrin]

Compared with some of his predecessors, Bert van Marwijk has had an easy time managing the Netherlands over the last four years when it comes to crisis management. The Dutch have been notorious over the years for in-fighting and feuds that can ruin harmony in the squad and destroy their hopes in major tournaments. Van Marwijk has avoided such issues through intelligent management and, more importantly, strong performances and results during his time in charge. Until now. The Netherlands’ defeat to Denmark in their Euro 2012 opener in Kharkiv on Saturday night has caused cracks to emerge ahead of their remaining two group games, against Germany on Wednesday and Portugal on Sunday. Rafael van der Vaart, Netherlands’ vice-captain, trudged past Van Marwijk at the full-time whistle without even a glance at the coach. At the time, it appeared he was simply too devastated by the result. But the Tottenham playmaker, an influential figure in the dressing room, is now believed to have lost faith with Van Marwijk after being named as a substitute in the Group B opener, despite expecting to start. After the game, Van der Vaart planted the seeds of revolt when talking to Dutch journalists, many of which have been calling for him to start instead of Nigel de Jong or Mark van Bommel. While playing with two defensive midfielders is understandable against the stronger teams, they were superfluous in the Metalist Stadium on Saturday as the Dutch completely controlled possession. Van der Vaart was as affable as ever when I spoke to him after the match, but a flash of anger appeared across his eyes when I asked for his thoughts on his current role as the team’s 12th man. It wasn’t an issue he wanted to discuss, he had to go and call his wife. But there is enough bubbling under the surface for Van Marwijk to fear the repercussions should his side lose to Germany on Wednesday, a result that would almost certainly bring an end their tournament at the first stage. On the scale of the great feuds in the Netherlands national team at major tournaments, it has some way to go to match the falling out between Ruud Gullit and Dick Advocaat in 1994, or Edgar Davids and Guus Hiddink in 1996. But there is enough bubbling under the surface for Van Marwijk to fear the repercussions should his side lose to Germany on Wednesday, a result that would almost certainly bring an end their tournament at the first stage. DUTCH DELIGHT? 14/1 Netherlands are 14/1 to win Euro 2012 with bet365 De Jong stormed through the mixed zone after the match with a face like thunder, performing the trick familiar to all journalists of pretending to be on his phone. According to reports in Holland, De Jong is also angry with Van Marwijk about being substituted in the 71st minute against Denmark. The Manchester City midfielder and several team-mates felt that Van Bommel should have made way instead. In the mix here, of course, is the fact that Van Bommel is Van Marwijk's son-in-law, the team’s captain and a definite starter for Oranje. A growing number of players, however, feel his performances for the team mean he no longer deserves that status. Throw in the debate over whether Klaas-Jan Huntelaar should start instead of Robin van Persie and the Arsenal striker’s tense relationship with Wesley Sneijder, and you sense that knives are being sharpened and fingers being pointed. Nobody has broken ranks to speak publicly, but that could change if the Netherlands suffer defeat on Wednesday. And it could get very uncomfortable for Van Marwijk. http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/3284...acing-netherlands-revolt-led-by-van-der-vaart

If Van Marwijk is starting with De Jong / Van Bommel on wednesday again I can't take the man serious any more.

 

[IdleRich]

Difficult not to pick Van Persie I'd have thought... at least before Saturday anyway. I'm sure he'll come good if they survive a few games but if they don't get a good result against Germany that might be too late.
Do you think Van Bommel was somewhat at fault for the goal?

 

[baboon2004]

Italy-Spain was the best game of international football I've seen in a long while. Two technically excellent, progressive sides, well-matched, two excellent goals, can't complain at all.

 

[e/y]

Yeah, really enjoyed that. Nice to see systems other than the usual 4-2-3-1 being used, made for an interesting game. That picture of Iniesta is amazing.

I think the work that Hodgeson was able to accomplish in a short period of time is pretty remarkable, England looked very organised and cohesive. Gerrard had a great game, too - def wasn't expecting that!

Lots of drama in the Ukraine game, too. Really enjoyable tournament.

 

[paolo]

England were pretty good last night, considering it's only Roy's third game in charge and they were missing Rooney. I think they can win their other two games - Sweden weren't that impressive, Ukraine looked shaky at the back and I think the English defence is good enough to deal with Sheva (just about)

 

[Slothrop]

 

[IdleRich]

Yeah England looked organised. Defending was far from desperate but they got their positioning horribly wrong for the goal - and a few times in that perid in fact they sat back when the French were in shooting range. Guess they got a bollocking at half-time because they sorted that and pretty much restricted the French to long-shots.
Organisation came at the expense of flair but when there isn't really much flair there I'm happy with that deal.
Milner's miss was far far worse than the chances that Torres is being absolutely slated for - would have been interesting if that had gone in, though maybe Fance would just have responded more quickly.
I think people were a bit hard on Ukraine/Sweden - I'm not at all confident they'll just lie down for England and France. England have had a fairly solid start but I think they will need to add cutting edge and not fade as an attacking force if they're gonna get through.

 

[baboon2004]

If Ukraine have to win the last game to get through, I'd imagine they'll be a very difficult proposition on their own turf. Think the group will be very close between 3 teams, as with the Spain group.

 

[crackerjack]

England have had a fairly solid start but I think they will need to add cutting edge and not fade as an attacking force if they're gonna get through.

Well exactly. England pretty much parked the bus yesterday. They need 4 points from the last 2 to be confident (though not certain) of qualification, so that's no longer an option. I reckon Hodgson will be pleased to see Sweden concede two headed goals and wouldn't be surprised if this is Carroll's one and only start, alongside Wellbeck, with Young going wide and the Ox dropping out.

 

[IdleRich]

I don't think that they parked the bus at all. They started cagily but so did France, after that they were more on the back foot but I think there is a world of difference between playing cautiously and putting every single player behind the ball. OK, they're on the same spectrum but it is a spectrum.

 

[crackerjack]

I don't think that they parked the bus at all. They started cagily but so did France, after that they were more on the back foot but I think there is a world of difference between playing cautiously and putting every single player behind the ball. OK, they're on the same spectrum but it is a spectrum.

Up till first goal they looked intermittently enterprising. Afterwards it was pretty much the bus – was it 1 shot on target to France's 15? Something like that, I read

 

[IdleRich]

Yeah but I didn't see it that way. More like France gradually came to dominate in midfield and pushed them back leaving the front two isolated and thus unable to do too much when they did get the ball.
I'd call it one team getting the better of the other in midfield and thus having more shots whereas parking the bus seems to imply a deliberate philosophy. Also I'd say that it involves defending very deep but France seemed unable to penetrate to the final third (after their corners at the start of the second half). England held them well outside the box which is why although there were lots of shots there weren't really any that you could seriously expect to go in. Exactly what they didn't do in the first half in fact.

 

[yyaldrin]

I'm so afraid we will lose tonight. Let's hope Sneijder is right

 

[hucks]

Well exactly. England pretty much parked the bus yesterday. They need 4 points from the last 2 to be confident (though not certain) of qualification, so that's no longer an option. I reckon Hodgson will be pleased to see Sweden concede two headed goals and wouldn't be surprised if this is Carroll's one and only start, alongside Wellbeck, with Young going wide and the Ox dropping out.

Thought Wellbeck was really good the other night. He's quite a clever player, holds on to the ball well and waits for support rather than heading for goal all the time. I was trying to explain this to a mate in the pub during the game, whereupon Wellbeck did the exact fucking opposite and lost the ball. Thanks.

Also. Watching England in the pub in big tournaments is a funny thing. With five minutes to go people were screaming at Hart to launch it long and for everyone to get up the field as if England were chasing a goal, rather than absolutely dead on their feet and desperate for the full time whistle.

 

[jenks]

I'm so afraid we will lose tonight. Let's hope Sneijder is right

]

Think the problem was as much MVB as RvP - midfield was set up too defensively not allowing for the kind of freedom needed for the rest of the team. Think Wesley was very good and wonder if de Jong and VdV might give the team a chance tonight. Admittedly Wesley and VdV don't always work well togther but if Huntelaar doesn't start then RvP and Aff have got to have much better games to justify his omission.

 

[yyaldrin]

Think the problem was as much MVB as RvP - midfield was set up too defensively not allowing for the kind of freedom needed for the rest of the team. Think Wesley was very good and wonder if de Jong and VdV might give the team a chance tonight. Admittedly Wesley and VdV don't always work well togther but if Huntelaar doesn't start then RvP and Aff have got to have much better games to justify his omission.

Van Marwijk has been known for his conservative playing style, he has the same lineup for six years or so. There's a lot of things wrong with they way they played against the Danish. Van Bommel is too old and you should have an attacking midfielder on his place, I'd love to see Sneijder playing there giving the direct pass forward and I'd love to see Huntelaar as a striker and Van Persie right behind him. Also, why not put Affelay on the right side and Robben on the left, that way they can cross the ball in front of the goal and have either Van Persie or Huntelaar to finish. A left footed player on the right and a right footed player on the left is worthless in this system where you have no real backs making it to the other side of the field.

 

[e/y]

But Sneijder doesn't like playing that role - he prefers to be almost a striker very high up. And he did really well in the 1st game, I think. VdV is a good player, but I don't think he has the work-rate / discipline to play as a central midfielder (and like Sneijder I think he's better further forward). Don't know, maybe Strootman and De Jong would be a good partnership.

 

[IdleRich]

"Also. Watching England in the pub in big tournaments is a funny thing. With five minutes to go people were screaming at Hart to launch it long and for everyone to get up the field as if England were chasing a goal, rather than absolutely dead on their feet and desperate for the full time whistle."

Get it in the mixer!

Anyway - no-one talking about Poland vs Russia last night? Pretty exciting game I thought.