KAN YAY OR KAN NAY? (The Kanye West Thread)

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
Sure. When I used to work in a school i overheard numerous conversations between 11 year old boys about pornhub, bukkake vids they'd watched etc etc. How can this possibly have any positive effect on boys attitudes to women and sex? Not convinced that the Female friendly stuff is doing anything positive either tbh.

Did anyone see the stuff about Michael Jackson's porn collection in the news the other day? Seems to have buried in the European media with all the brexit stuff.

Lets not forget that pimps and paedofiles often show young people porn in order to groom them for sexual exploitation.
This is all based on arbitrary anecdotal evidence and conjecture.

Results from proper scientific methodology suggests your assertions are false.
 

Benny B

Well-known member
Is it possible to have a discussion about this without having to meticulously back up every single point or opinion with 'proper scientific methodology' and evidence. I mean I could easily find you tons of studies, articles and reports attesting to the damaging effects of children watching porn.

You could try opening your eyes to what's going on around us all and using your own brain for a bit
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
Is it possible to have a discussion about this without having to meticulously back up every single point or opinion with 'proper scientific methodology' and evidence. I mean I could easily find you tons of studies, articles and reports attesting to the damaging effects of children watching porn.

You could try opening your eyes to what's going on around us all and using your own brain for a bit
... which neatly brings us full circle:

It seems like this is a matter of faith to you.

If we're not going to work from a rational, evidence-based paradigm then I'd rather not go on with this discussion.
 

Benny B

Well-known member
lets get it straight, your conclusion based on 'proper scientific methodology' is...porn is good because sexualisation improves gender equality and human rights and stops men sexually abusing women...but it only works if we show it to young people.

nice one mate
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
lets get it straight, your conclusion based on 'proper scientific methodology' is...porn is good because sexualisation improves gender equality and human rights and stops men sexually abusing women...but it only works if we show it to young people.

nice one mate
You've repeatedly misrepresented what I've said, could you please stop.

I'm not telling anyone to show children porn. That is punishable with jail time as it should be.

We're approaching this from such different paradigms that there's no point in keeping this discussion going.
 

Benny B

Well-known member
if i've misrepresented what you've said then i apologise. you could try and help me to understand your position a bit better maybe if you didn't just dump a couple of suspicious looking scientific studies on us, which you appear to swallow without question. show me that you've actually thought about it and weighed up your 'evidence' with ideas of your own, which are not necessarily quantifiable.

if you believe that those who don't watch porn until later life are more likely to be abusive, are you implying that people should start watching it when they're younger (16? 18? 21?).

are you implying that porn has something good to teach us, something that stops us turning into abusers? what type of porn?

or are you implying that porn works as a sort of safe release for male sexual aggression, so they don't go out and abuse women 'in real life' themselves?


see, if you don't explain yourself i'm gonna jump to all sorts of conclusions.
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
Sorry, there's no need for you to apologise, I wasn't explaining myself clearly.

One of the links I posted is a review of numerous studies on the subject. Scientific methodology looks for repeated outcomes which is why I think a review of the literature has more validity than individual studies. If there are flaws with any methodology or conflicting evidence becomes available I will change my mind.

The problem with using my own ideas (or other people using their own ideas), particularly if they're not quantifiable, is that I'm more fallible than proper evidence. People are susceptible to confirmation bias, their lives provide them with very small 'sample sizes', particular variables will be disproportionately represented by a person's lifestyle, etc. So subjective conjecture doesn't have much scientific validity.

I don't know why exposure to porn later in life is correlated with increased sex crime. Maybe growing up with sexuality being taboo increases both how late in life someone encounters porn and their likelihood of committing sex crimes. In which case there is no causality between the two.

I'm not necessarily saying that porn reduces sex crime, though some studies do suggest that. I'm saying that there isn't a correlation between increased porn consumption in a society and increased sexual violence. I think there are similar studies to suggest that violence in films and videogames doesn't result in more real world violence.
 

Benny B

Well-known member
I don't know why exposure to porn later in life is correlated with increased sex crime. Maybe growing up with sexuality being taboo increases both how late in life someone encounters porn and their likelihood of committing sex crimes. In which case there is no causality between the two.

.
so porn now equals sexuality?
 

Corpsey

call me big papa
Believe me, there are worse things to do with your time, and I've just been indirectly condemned for them. :eek:
 

Corpsey

call me big papa
It's a contradictory age, insofar as acceptance of pornography and of women's rights are both on the rise. Can't link it through work PC but according to a study cited in a Wiki entry for rate of rapes in the U.S., levels of rape have been more or less steadily declining between 1973-2003.

Which isn't to say porn is CAUSING this decline, of course. And arguably could be held responsible for the rate not declining MORE.

I reckon in the case of some sexual offenders, pornography will have helped them cross the threshold from fantasy to action, but whether or not pornography is responsible for the fantasy developing in the first place is open to debate. It's a similar question with movie violence, isn't it?

Viewed through this lens, porn is kind of fascinating as a reflector of societal attitudes towards sex and gender. I always find the variety of culture-specific fetishes fascinating. The Japanese schoolgirl thing, e.g., or the supposed British predilection for spanking. I've always wanted to read a great book about this, so if you know of any, let me know.
 

rubberdingyrapids

Well-known member
this is when broadband started to appear right? (or later i think).

be interesting to see figures after that.

when you could be looking at porn on your phone on the way to work or like fassbender in shame, while AT work.
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
barty have a read of this if you can be arsed and have got the time and inclination, its good on the effects of porn on young people

http://www.feministcurrent.com/2016/03/13/growing-up-pornland-australian-girls/
I had a number of problems with it, I wrote them down as I read it and it all adds up to more than a page on microsoft word. Mainly to do with the methodology of the studies they use and how the article presents the results. If you want I can PM my qualms with it to you (or anyone else interested), but I think it's a bit too much to post on a Kanye West thread.
 

rubberdingyrapids

Well-known member
having finally seen this, im still not sure what people are so angry about. its like watching kanye do trash humpers. is it creepy? most definitely. is it a new nadir in terms of sexism? not nearly.

I will say in regards to your "a real plus" on the Brown/Cosby analogies is that while I agree with you that they're morally condemnable as people, it is MUCH EASIER in America for them to be demonized for that behavior than white men. Or was that Johnny Depp domestic abuse/divorce scandal where his ex-wife who's less than half his age gets her name dragged through the mud, and little to no public scandal a figment of my imagination or that amazing turn of events where domestic abuser Sean Penn can sue Lee Daniels for defamation of character and win for having the nerve to infer the well-known public knowledge that he beat Madonna? Is that not a country where Birth of a Nation is a cinematic tome to make black men the most ugly of people?
you wont get anywhere bringing race into it on this site.
 
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