World Cup 2014

crackerjack

Well-known member
I thought Spain were going to do really well

I was torn between their record (won Euro 2012 against my expectations, brilliant defence in qualifying, now with added Costa power) and the recent evidence (Barca decline, Costa untested and possibly unfit). I convinced myself that they were going to surprise everyone and win again, just cos they're a really solid unit of consistent achievers in a tournament with no obviously outstanding team. Last week I went to the bookies to place a £50 bet on them. Lost my never halfway and went for a walk in the park instead. Thank fuck.
 

paolo

Mechanical phantoms
Steven Gerrard is so shit

Edit - OK that's a bit harsh but he has messed up in big games quite a few times over the years
 
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IdleRich

IdleRich
In the last world cup and in this one England conceded a goal when the opposition keeper just lumped it up field and the defenders failed to deal with it. In these days of incredibly complicated tactics and their discussion why the hell does that happen? Embarrassing anyway.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
I guess they will carry on being mediocre and underwhelming as they always do. A few bright prospects for the future such as Janelle Monae but most of them aren't that good.
 

craner

Beast of Burden
Are they worse than the Italia 90 team? Weren't they just luckier?

(By the way, I am not asking these questions from a position of any knowledge, or with any sarcasm or point-scoring. I am quite interested.)
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Yeah, I dunno. Luck does play a huge part in football although the more you have of the ball and the more pressure in their box and the more shots then the more chance you have of getting a "lucky" penalty or a "lucky" goal I'd say. But it is a fine line between victory and defeat. Uruguay should certainly have had a man sent off yesterday and if that had happened at 0-0 then England might well have gone on to win. But if they did I don't think that would make them a better team and they probably wouldn't have gone much further. On the other hand, who knows, the Italia 90 team did seem to get better with every game, they were rubbish at first. I don't particularly remember any great slices of luck they had. There was the late goal by Platt - was that luck or a moment of genius?
England were certainly unlucky when that goal against Germany was not counted in the last World Cup - that should have meant that England were back in the game at 2-2 from 2-0 to say that it would have just meant that they lost 4-2 instead of 4-1 as that actually did is really faililng to understand the way that football works.
The England fan can point to three huge clear injustices (Maradona 86, Koeman in the Euro Qualifiers and Germany 2010) but I wonder how many dodgy goals and what not they've scored and we've conveniently forgotten about.
Bit of an unfocused ramble there but it's certainly true that a moment of forgotten luck in a qualifier or early game can be the thing that means that they are in the hat for the next round and ultimately go on to win.
 

crackerjack

Well-known member
On the other hand, who knows, the Italia 90 team did seem to get better with every game, they were rubbish at first. I don't particularly remember any great slices of luck they had. There was the late goal by Platt - was that luck or a moment of genius?
.

England 1990 is one of the great national footballing myths. We were marginally second best against Belgium (Barnes scored a good goal wrongly disallowed – otherwise I'd have put that more strongly) and were completely outplayed by Cameroon, who just didn't have the street smarts to avoid conceding 2 penalties. The draw with Ireland was the single worst game of the tournament and we got through with one scraped goal against a weak Egypt. Played well against a strong German team, though - and that's what everyone clings to. Mexico 86 was better in many ways – at least there we were actually sweeping teams aside once we'd settled on the right line-up.
 

crackerjack

Well-known member
Anyway, enough history.

I didn't think, all things considered, we were terrible last night. Ball retentions stats, fwiw, actually pretty good by our standards - and well above Uruguay's. But the truth is we have an average squad, including some players who plainly aren't international standard (Johnson, Jagielka) and a captain who's playing in the wrong position cos he's apparently too old to play where he's good. Add to that the continued indulgence of a good player who's nowhere near justifying his superstar status and you have... what you saw last night.

At least England went in playing with the right attitude instead of marking time till departure day.
 

craner

Beast of Burden
I like the way the roles have reversed from the start of this thread: Rich now despondent, fatalistic, Eeyorish, while CJ is suddenly a bit more chipper and optimistic. There's a lesson in expectations right there.
 

crackerjack

Well-known member
I like the way the roles have reversed from the start of this thread: Rich now despondent, fatalistic, Eeyorish, while CJ is suddenly a bit more chipper and optimistic. There's a lesson in expectations right there.

Haha. We may go out earlier this time, but the way I see it, in '06 we were pampered and useless, more memorable for the farce of Baden-Baden's shopping WAGs than our football; in '10 we were a lethargic inept disgrace and finished in a piss-weak group 2nd to the USfuckingA. In '14, we were narrowly beaten by two decent teams (and one out-and-out genius).

Of course, if we lose to CR I'll need to revise this assessment downwards...
 

craner

Beast of Burden
2010 was surely a nadir. Watching it as an ignorant but luke-warm England supporter, it was a horrible spectacle. I can't imagine what it must have been like for you. My abiding memory is them being booed by the England crowd as they walked off the pitch (after Algeria?) with Wayne Rooney spitting out the words "nice fucking fans" (or something) when a camera was stuck in his face. Truly dismal. I can see why you're happier now.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
"1966 for starters."
I wouldn't say that that is on the same level as any of the three that were just quoted. It took about forty years for computer technology to persuasively argue that it wasn't over the line and those who were closest to it will swear until the day they die that it was in. The ones I mentioned were cases of clear cheating that were apparent to anyone with at least one eye who saw them the first time and they were compounded by terrible/weak refereeing. For me the Koeman one was the worst in that the referee actually saw what happened and yet still failed to apply the law and send Koeman off, meaning that he was able to prevent a goal by cheating and later add even more injury to injury by scoring.
I still actually get angry thinking about that, part of my soul died that night. No wonder Graham Taylor totally lost it.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
"England 1990 is one of the great national footballing myths. We were marginally second best against Belgium (Barnes scored a good goal wrongly disallowed – otherwise I'd have put that more strongly) and were completely outplayed by Cameroon, who just didn't have the street smarts to avoid conceding 2 penalties. The draw with Ireland was the single worst game of the tournament and we got through with one scraped goal against a weak Egypt. Played well against a strong German team, though - and that's what everyone clings to. Mexico 86 was better in many ways – at least there we were actually sweeping teams aside once we'd settled on the right line-up."
They were certainly terrible against Ireland. That Ireland side were involved in a lot of terrible games to be fair. I can't remember the Belgium game particularly well but Barnes did have that fantastic goal mistakenly chalked off and they won with an equally good volley. If I remember correctly the Cameroon game swung back and forth with England leading, then going behind and then leading again. At least it was exciting. The problem with the last world cup was that England were involved in so many boring games - I can't imagine that anyone would have greeted their exit with anything but a fond farewell. I mean, that might be the case every time but then they deserved it purely in football terms.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Unfortunately I now (barring a miracle and England somehow surviving) have to transfer my allegiance to Russia. My girlfriend is Russian and she's been a good England supporter so I think it's the least I can do but I really thought I'd seen the last of Capello's dour tactics...
 

craner

Beast of Burden
That's very chivalrous.

Watching the two England games so far has reminded me of nothing so much as watching the Welsh rugby team: debilitating hype and pressure, fragile confidence, soul-catching periods of attacking play, almost every serious chance created inevitably botched or squandered while the opposition put away almost every serious chance they create, come away with no real sense of greivance but at the same time the 'noble defeat' does nothing to prevent total deflation. This is what it's like in Wales all the time, where we are chained to this rugby team and your football team.
 
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