CrowleyHead

Well-known member
What we need is the abolition of race, which is itself racist.

Coming from a man who fetishizes Africa thrice as much as any white man that makes sense you'd be all for post-racial abandon. So radical to behave like a bourgeois colonial appraiser.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
Coming from a man who fetishizes Africa thrice as much as any white man that makes sense you'd be all for post-racial abandon. So radical to behave like a bourgeois colonial appraiser.

If he was really racialised as brown he wouldn't have fallen into my trap.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
so were jungle and grime.

That piece was an attack on all of the hardcore continuum, basically. back to post-punk and art pop. essentially that was the message for us. otherwise Paul Gilroy had a much, much more perceptive criticism of identity politics in the 2000s, something I am sure Mark (RIP) was aware of.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
This is what happens when you trail the decrepit remains of the managerial left. You see this as a new political movement when it's really politics and careerism in its naked form. communism will put an end to all this chatter of autonomous rubbish of the political sphere. not only will it put an end to it, it will be a matter of complete indifference. the species will cognise itself like the body of christ or the annihilation in ana-al-haq. there will be noone to own or noone to demand autonomy from. including your cultural consumption goods.
 
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thirdform

Well-known member
It's like people wanna fit these sorts of diasporic and creole sounds into a world music continuum but it doesn't work. Like Nidia Minaj her self has been on record saying that her main inspiration for her take on the Lisbon Kuduro sound is David Guetta (not that i have a problem with that as her music doesn't really sound like DG though there is a huge influence there.) Fact is world music has always been the preserve of aesthetes, and I don't just mean the opulent world beat stuff, I mean the connoisseur field recordings on Ocora. Siavash Amini even made such a point in one of his rebuttals to a western commentator that they'd seen a computer and an Atari before they'd seen a tar, and this lad was born and grew up in Tehran. So the bad corporate overlords narritive is only a half truth, as me and Luke have always said.

It's like Lotic right, their whole brand is predicated on being the woke diagnoser of club cultures pathologies, owing far more to the frankly out of date M.I.A (in the UK) otherwise they do not (so far as i can parse) have an in depth integration in the techno culture - like collecting K Alexi and Jay Denham records - I could be wrong. And then they say their set comprised 99% black trans women whilst the highlight of it being Cardi B who has been on record making inadvertent transphobic comments. This idea that black and brown people can only be authentic and not pushing a brand if they're in the creative field is total Heideggerian rubbish.

*not to mention that dancehall was the black techno innovations in popular consciousness in the 2000s, not erykah badu or M.I.A*

But of course if this new generation of pseudo-communist commentariat seriously grappled with dancehall it would raise uncomfortable issues about the hip hop they are championing as this great inclusive multicultural space. Then you will get called out for using the word ghetto to refer to the aesthetic they repudiate because it's anti-black, apparently, even though they ignore that music!
 
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thirdform

Well-known member
and that's not saying much

Understatement of the century. you saw it all happen. Aloiso made a joke and you literally had people piling on him for his black anarchism despite presenting themselves as the wokest of the woke. shameful.

Some serious 1960s 'I have black friends but' racism.

Kind of glad we made this thread happen now to mock those positions.
 

other_life

bioconfused
i couldn't even follow the entire thread.
the precious self presentation of that entire set. everything has to be Aesthetically Impeccable. as aloiso said *the mixes every month.* everyone is a fucking 'artist' with a 'practice' or whatever.
i don't remember where but spencer clark said he felt like it was easier for him to be a 'joiner', to get people together for freely improvised collaboration, somewhere like belgium because in the north american metropole, he said (necessarily paraphrasing) "everyone wants to have their own unique idea *downloaded* and present it as uniquely theirs".
this was 5 or maybe even 10 years ago, though, and he's also not really talking about Techno. that has its own dynamics. i know this is the Multiculturalism thread also but feels relevant to 'techno twitter'.
from the outside looking in, Artful Techno looks more like a monoculture than it does a multiculture.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
art techno in 2019 is definitely a monoculture. even when there are black women or trans, or black men of colour the aim is more recycling ideas to prop up white hierarchies rather than fostering community. bizarrely the far more monomusical climbs of gabba and drum and bass despite being co-opted by mixmag are still not as much about an enormous social media presence. you of course can't do without it but most young white techno djs are booked on the strength of their facile politics and platforms, not whether they have a definite aesthetic or a vision, just anything that sounds a bit nice and a bit floaty and a bit banging. double points if you can advertise your queerness because that's the new white guilt for straight people.

Maybe I'm romanticising it but what barty might have called monoculture wrt post-punk seemed far more open to actual dialogue with poc, a genuine appreciation of our/their music. there isn't really an appreciation for anything in techno now.
 
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luka

Well-known member
Staff member
Third definitely has a point when he says London is no longer multicultural but is just a sink for low-wage, easily exploitable labour.
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
Immigration serves the interests of the elite, but they are also able to exploit tensions and fears arising from immigration. They get to have their cake and eat it. Because normal people are committed to anti-racism and unity across ethnic and cultural and religious lines we don't really like talking about immigration at all. i find the conspiracy theories about soros looking to undermine European civilization/political power through massive immigration interesting because as with many of these fantasies it's a distorted reflection of a truth. The truth being the way in which massive immigration mitigates against class consciousness, class solidarity, class unity etc. depresses wages etc etc etc.

I'm interested how this plays out at the level of schools but I'm worried that schools, in particular primary schools, are tilting towards de facto segregation, this just anecdotally, judging by the school parties I see trooping past my office. I think schools are the most important thing because they are the places everyone meets and interacts on a level playing field (literal and figurative)

I think I started a thread about secular churches a few years back, just in recognition of the fact that there is nowhere for people to meet nowadays, and you can't have a community without a community hub. Without a place to meet regularly. And if you can't meet all we are left with is isolation, and the only time various of groups of people register on our consciousness is when they are pissing us off.
e.g. Latin American neighbours blasting out their terrible music or Romanians revving their moped engines outside the window constantly, or corpseys Greeks barbecuing all through the night so his whole flat smells of incinerated meat. And you go, I fucking hate them Greeks, fucking cunts, get em out the country.

Looking back on my childhood my mum was very good at meeting all the neighbours even now she talks to all the Gypsies who've moved in next door and shout all night. Most of us just fantasise about murder behind closed curtains.
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
Obviously, that's if there is an elite. Some people think there isn't one anymore, just the thing itself, progressing according to its own 'ineluctable logic' with its own replaceable spokespersons desperately trying to stay seated on its mechanical bull. What would I know, I'm little people
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
Sorry to be all boring, but this is a pet peeve of mine.

The notion that immigration reduces wages arises from the ‘lump of labour’ fallacy and isn’t born out by empirical evidence.
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
I have no faith in empirical evidence whatsoever. You would have to try very hard to budge me from that position.
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
And immigration is very good for nhs, social care system, etc.

It’s not some thing that just benefits the elite. It benefits some of the most unfortunate in society
 
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