sadmanbarty

Well-known member
you don't talk about drill like someone in the drill culture. you talk about jungle like a junglist, albeit a shit one who has only listened to 30 jungle tunes, but you're still nuum through and through. noone can take that away from you.

aside from all the digs, that's actually very eloquent, astute and to large degrees accurate.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
But then one could also say that innovation or at least your metric is an innovation relative to UK music. whereas mine is perhaps more predicated on the capabilities of technology. this is where my turkishness comes through I suppose. one can only do so much with a 4-4 rhythm.

I mean without going full frankfurt school and saying innovation is a capitalist concept to sell commodities, which is true enough, let's still keep it as a vague heuristic. I hate all that taudry it's all subjective man. But then that leaves two options. the ability to hear history or hear technology. which one is radical, can either be? Because in some circles I am hearing about the anti-human agenda or the transcending of the body leading to reaction and fascism (thanks you accelerationist dimwits!) in which case though, there is literally nowhere for electronic music to go, ever. the dreams of the prog gods for synthesisers to replicate real instruments will be the new normal. and that, that's a depressing thought.
 
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sadmanbarty

Well-known member
the dreams of the prog gods for synthesisers to replicate real instruments

as an aside, something you get with all the post-808 music's, but particularly with drill is the thing of the drum sounds decreasingly resembling the drum kit. in a drill song what's ostensibly the snare drum has very little to do with real world snare drums. it sounds like it could be a hi hat, or a squelch or a click. it's all part of drill's aesthetic of abstraction and solipsism. dematerialisation.
 

luka

Well-known member
that was more to calm luka down. he's been all weird on the futurist and this thread and it was making everyone uncomfortable. i had to surrender, give him some room to breath and get him back to his old self.

I did actually grow up in the '90s you know! futurism and multiculturalism are two highly venerated sacred cows for my people. I found I couldn't even pretend not to hold them dear. They are actually pretty central to me. It seems obvious that both are on the wane and that upsets me.
 

luka

Well-known member
Given larger forces beyond our control have thrown us all together in this cramped medieval city it feels to me like we might as well acknowledge the fact and not pretend it's not happening. We are multicultural whether we like it or not.
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
I did actually grow up in the '90s you know! futurism and multiculturalism are two highly venerated sacred cows for my people. I found I couldn't even pretend not to hold them dear. They are actually pretty central to me. It seems obvious that both are on the wane and that upsets me.

i was intending to write this exact post to you if you kept it up. i was planning on using the term 'sacred cows' and everything.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
I mean the problem is we can't tell 15 year olds what the direction of music should be simply because we're two aware. they can show us an abstract drum track and we can wheel out mimaroglu's clarinette treatments. or they can show us some beat science and we'll be into bizzy b. or they can show us some dancehall and we'll be like steely and cleavie. our problem is we don't have good late 20s music in 2010. it's shit. ironically enough for barty that was dubstep. but dubstep outside a specialist scene is nonexistent in 2019.

And, that, i think, should lead onto a critique of the radio/dj mix format. what we are all craving is the aleatory. beyond a few algorithmic nerds that is nonexistent in popular music today. we can't go and see the rashied ali quartet or the jbs or miles davis. There is no more chance left in electronic music. the rigid sequencer pulses (even if not sonically) in aesthetic won. us funkateers lost. and that's the problem for barty. he can't pretend to be black because identity politics will crucify him. everyone loves trance. and given trance is white his whiteness will not stand out.
 
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thirdform

Well-known member
as an aside, something you get with all the post-808 music's, but particularly with drill is the thing of the drum sounds decreasingly resembling the drum kit. in a drill song what's ostensibly the snare drum has very little to do with real world snare drums. it sounds like it could be a hi hat, or a squelch or a click. it's all part of drill's aesthetic of abstraction and solipsism. dematerialisation.

That's a good point. but then again it comes down to age doesn't it? in 2010 i was listening to warp records and stuff like this after everything had died, whereas people were still in a more generally funky house going clubbing (as opposed to uk funky) phase.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCPUWs9mH_I

I'm also not sure if you can call Autechre gentrified dance music that's a bit like saying working class people can't make classical or opera. undoubtedly there is that gentrified dynamic in the so-called idm scene but im not into that really.
 

firefinga

Well-known member
I'm also not sure if you can call Autechre gentrified dance music

Autechre just took the same equipment as all the dance music producers and made weird and beautiful stuff with it without "dance-ability" as their first goal. All well and jolly :)
 

thirdform

Well-known member
footwork was the last iteration of that. the last thing filling that cultural space

I think you are bang on the money with this. although for all some people slate planet mu and mike paradinas on here at least he tried (far far more than others.) look at kode 9! he jacked it and fucked it off, now he's releasing art school deconstructed club. the UK people actually voluntarily let the IDM people they kept castigating win. Kode nine was more squarepusher than Tom Jenkinson. That's when I realised the hardcore continuum was a big farce in the 2010s.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
it's a bit like your old communist grandad who turns tory when he's 79. i mean it's endearing but it's well nathan barly and face palm isn't it?
 

thirdform

Well-known member
Autechre just took the same equipment as all the dance music producers and made weird and beautiful stuff with it without "dance-ability" as their first goal. All well and jolly :)

I disagree, I think danceability was always the first goal in their music (apart from the ambient bits.)

This is what I'm saying. the rigid automaton pendulum swing idea of machine music one out over the more modulated, improvisatory and computerised element. this was the achilles heal of the dj format. some of those rave tapes we all know and love from back in the day had really bad mixes. dreadful by todays standards - of course I'm saying this as a compliment.

There's a reason why the curators rated the dungheap that was sasha and digweed. really everyone wanted to be a seemless dj. that striving for excellence is what pushes dance music forward but also kills it. this is why I hate the term that journalists are using today called 'experimental club music.' why does it have to be restricted to *clubs*?
 

luka

Well-known member
Two songs playing in the Kurdish barber shop just now when I was there

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p8_A9x3NCu4

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sEhy-RXkNo0


"Dancehall, afrobeats, afroswing, ‘tropical’ pop and even bits of rap all sound the same. It is this homogenised global music. I was in Greece"

"thats not multiculturalism, its a uniform aesthetic based on capitalist assimilation and regurgitation of local culture as commodity."

"They disgust me"
 
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