WashYourHands
Cat Malogen
Just saying.
Mark Fell, Rian Treanor, Gabor Lazar
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Just saying.
version
Well-known member
SND - Tplay (Special Extended Edition)
Extended 70 minute reissue of the very first SND release dating back to 1998 - the original 5 tracks have been doubled in number with original, previously unreleased recordings from the same sessions, all fully remastered from DAT tapes by Rashad Becker at D&M. The original pressing has been...
SND - newtables (Special Extended Edition)
Mark Fell and Mat Steel’s second EP as SND was released in 1999, a year after their debut ‘Tplay’. It continued to explore their distinct, highly individual take on electronic minimalism, House and UK Garage stripped to its bare bones. This extended reissue features the original 6 tracks of...
SND - travelog (Special Extended Edition)
‘Travelog’ was the third EP released by Mat Steel and Mark Fell as SND, arriving in 1999 just before the release of their influential debut album ‘Makesnd Cassette’ on the Mille Plateaux label. Of the three EP reissues in the series, ‘Travelog’ contains the most developed and satisfying work...
linebaugh
Well-known member
what were you getting at here wash?
WashYourHands
Cat Malogen
@Linebaugh That Jack offers his soul for booze. When he passes that threshold, chaos ensues.
It’s a possession - that’s why (perhaps) he’s always been the caretaker, as per the photo of him from a previous era.
It’s a possession - that’s why (perhaps) he’s always been the caretaker, as per the photo of him from a previous era.
WashYourHands
Cat Malogen
The book has a bit more on Jack’s drinking, but in the film that bar scene seems a transitional moment. The barman only appears after the offer of a soul.
WashYourHands
Cat Malogen
Apologies, Mr Fell. I love Yorkshire.
IdleRich
IdleRich
I think these things are not necessarily mutually exclusive though are they?
I mean, can't it be that, he's trying to get the visceral and psychological impact right - the feeling it engenders in people is really important to him and so he's working really hard on doing that and possibly he overthinks (and thus intellectualises) his attempt to do just that.
guess i was originally thinking more about philosophical or political themes than the technical craft of filmmaking.
i get the sense that some creators will consciously and specifically formulate a “take” for their latest project. whereas others will focus their energy on getting the visceral impact right and whatever relevant views they have will simply bleed through into the results.
so, IF that applied to the shining, you could say that maybe kubrick didn’t explicitly set out to make a film about racism, sexism, colonialism, but rather that his more general views of how those forces affected the world informed his depiction of the overlook hotel’s inhabitants and history. those forces are looming in the background of the film, but maybe part of why people find the film mysterious is that they’re not fully foregrounded or elucidated.
it may not be THAT useful or interesting a distinction from the viewer’s perspective; was mostly thinking, “what mindset could be helpful to make a film like this?”
i get the sense that some creators will consciously and specifically formulate a “take” for their latest project. whereas others will focus their energy on getting the visceral impact right and whatever relevant views they have will simply bleed through into the results.
so, IF that applied to the shining, you could say that maybe kubrick didn’t explicitly set out to make a film about racism, sexism, colonialism, but rather that his more general views of how those forces affected the world informed his depiction of the overlook hotel’s inhabitants and history. those forces are looming in the background of the film, but maybe part of why people find the film mysterious is that they’re not fully foregrounded or elucidated.
it may not be THAT useful or interesting a distinction from the viewer’s perspective; was mostly thinking, “what mindset could be helpful to make a film like this?”
IdleRich
IdleRich
I see what you mean. Definitely we're talking about two different overall ways of looking at the film - or just two different questions about the film I guess. For what it's worth, I reckon what you're saying is most likely right, I don't think he planned it all out with all those ideas mapped out like answers in a crossword - now a bit about racism, now some sexism stuff - I'm guessing (and I think that this is what you're saying), that he just made the film that he had in his mind and those things were kinda suggested at one time or another cos those were his preoccupations at the time and they couldn't help but appear.
To me that raises another question. I wonder if when someone makes a film in that way they think "I'll make this film and, just because of who I am and what I'm doing, there is no chance that my thoughts on colonialism (say) won't manifest themselves at some point" - in other words, it was still a conscious decision, or at least something he was aware of in advance and he just let happen. Or do you think he watches it back and goes "oh look, my concerns about colonialism came through there and I hadn't even planned it" - perhaps that's a pointless question really, most likely it's a spectrum across directors as a whole, and also across individual directors at different times. In other words (boring answer) sometimes it's more deliberate and sometimes it isn't. And some directors tend to do it more deliberately more often than others and some less. Meh.
Also, thinking back to what I said above about how directors use their technical skills to produce scenes that are supposed to visceral or based on feeling.... perhaps that's an almost entirely trivial point, of course directors use their technical skills to make films, and if they are going for a scene that is supposed to engender an entirely gut response in the viewer that's no exception. Although on the other hand, maybe it is possible for directors to overthink such scenes within the parameters that they necessarily have to work with.... perhaps I'm just rambling now....
To me that raises another question. I wonder if when someone makes a film in that way they think "I'll make this film and, just because of who I am and what I'm doing, there is no chance that my thoughts on colonialism (say) won't manifest themselves at some point" - in other words, it was still a conscious decision, or at least something he was aware of in advance and he just let happen. Or do you think he watches it back and goes "oh look, my concerns about colonialism came through there and I hadn't even planned it" - perhaps that's a pointless question really, most likely it's a spectrum across directors as a whole, and also across individual directors at different times. In other words (boring answer) sometimes it's more deliberate and sometimes it isn't. And some directors tend to do it more deliberately more often than others and some less. Meh.
Also, thinking back to what I said above about how directors use their technical skills to produce scenes that are supposed to visceral or based on feeling.... perhaps that's an almost entirely trivial point, of course directors use their technical skills to make films, and if they are going for a scene that is supposed to engender an entirely gut response in the viewer that's no exception. Although on the other hand, maybe it is possible for directors to overthink such scenes within the parameters that they necessarily have to work with.... perhaps I'm just rambling now....
luka
Well-known member
this photo gives you an analogue for what it is they are trying to do, or think they are doing, or aspire to. clean lines. formal composition. deliberate framing. contrast. the form itself is the content. the real world doesnt leak into it. it isnt really a picture of pallets stacked in a warehouse. its 'formal composition shadow and light' and obviously the tune likewise is not a tune its just a 'formal composition' and its for cunts.
entertainment
Well-known member
People tend to call Kubrick a formalist as well.