luka

Active member
Staff member
I do genuinely think it was cheerleading for the Iraq War ("a moral obligation") that did for Craner. I even think a mea culpa a few years down the line could have saved him but he still insists it was a just war and that the men and women behind it were well intentioned honest and honourable.
 

Corpsey

call me big papa
I was against the Iraq war but now I know Craner was in favour I've reversed my position.
 

vimothy

yurp
I do genuinely think it was cheerleading for the Iraq War ("a moral obligation") that did for Craner. I even think a mea culpa a few years down the line could have saved him but he still insists it was a just war and that the men and women behind it were well intentioned honest and honourable.
I meant what went wrong with the world, not with craner! iraq / afghanistan was a logical thing to do from a liberal point of view - or at least, one logical thing to do. therefore, the problem is either with logic or the assumptions that gave rise to it ...
 

Corpsey

call me big papa
I realised yesterday looking upon craner's twitter pic that he has the sort of amazing, lustrous, swept back profusive hair that i've only previously seen in Hugh Grant films, on Hugh Grant's head
 

luka

Active member
Staff member
I realised yesterday looking upon craner's twitter pic that he has the sort of amazing, lustrous, swept back profusive hair that i've only previously seen in Hugh Grant films, on Hugh Grant's head
MICHAEL HESELTINE
 

droid

Beast of Burden
I meant what went wrong with the world, not with craner! iraq / afghanistan was a logical thing to do from a liberal point of view - or at least, one logical thing to do. therefore, the problem is either with logic or the assumptions that gave rise to it ...
lol
 

sadmanbarty

New member
I do genuinely think it was cheerleading for the Iraq War ("a moral obligation") that did for Craner. I even think a mea culpa a few years down the line could have saved him but he still insists it was a just war and that the men and women behind it were well intentioned honest and honourable.
oliver goodwin hershaw craner, to what extent do you concur with the following?:

1) the invasion of iraq itself was successful.

2) the failure of the invasion's aftermath was not an inherent inevitability of the decision to occupy, but rather the fault of poor management.

3) iraqi public opinion was initially supportive of the occupation and declined only due to mismanagement and the success of the insurgency. had a more effective counterinsurgency strategy (patreus post-2007 style) been taken from the outset, the occupation would have been far more successful.

4) the syrian civil war was per capita deadlier than it's iraq counterpart and didn't even produce the (albeit, far from perfect) democratic institutions the iraq invasion did. this indicates that light-touch interventions produce worse outcomes that more direct ones.

(if you feel frightened to comment with droid here, we can kindly ask him to leave this thread as a safe space in which you can develop your thoughts and ideas)
 

sadmanbarty

New member
oi craner, if david frum's made his way back into political discourse so can you.

you'll be the hilary benn of dissensus. corpse will be your yvette cooper.

droid's jezza obviously. thirdform's ken livingston. luke's dennis skinner.

trill's dianne abbot. crowle's that bird who got done for drink driving. it's only fair we let vim be bercow.

we're waiting for you cray cray.
 

other_life

bioconfused
yeah man i sure do hate when governments exercise authority, like authoritarianism is a coherent ideology and not just a descr-
forget it
 

other_life

bioconfused
The Last Ringbearer (Russian: Последний кольценосец) is a 1999 fantasy book by Russian author Kirill Eskov. It is an alternative account of, and an informal sequel to, the events of J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings

The novel is based on the premise that the Tolkien account is a "history written by the victors". In Eskov's version of the story, Mordor is described as a peaceful country on the verge of an industrial revolution, that is a threat to the war-mongering and imperialistic faction represented by Gandalf (whose attitude has been described by Saruman as "crafting the Final Solution to the Mordorian problem") and the elves.
 
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