"yearning for the algorithmic"

mvuent

Void Dweller
The analogue/digital thing is a weird one as I really like the sound of both.
do you agree that each has different properties / strengths? if so any favorite examples of either? definitely agree with the link I posted that analogue tends to richer / more substantial / just better, but the sheer control offered by digital gives it the edge in terms of possibilities left to unlock. (but I've only ever used shitty softsynths so what do I know lol.)
 

version

Well-known member
do you agree that each has different properties / strengths? if so any favorite examples of either?

I do, but I don't necessarily think one's superior to the other. It's more a case of what I'm into at the time, although I probably lean toward analogue more often.

Analogue


Digital

 
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muser

Well-known member
v interesting theory. would be interested in hearing more about this part in particular. I can see how things that seem chaotic could be more ordered than they appear, but this is a bit more difficult for me to think of.

For example, looking at the micro scale things like reverb, analog filters/waveforms, artefacts from resolution and to the macro the subconscious choices made by the producer or musician are all chaotic in nature.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
I dunno if it's possible in a scene which requires people to come up with lines of code on the fly. It takes too much of the head and not enough of the body.

It's just jazz. why wouldn't it be possible? the problem is the steap learning curve and its curation in a research process to get more funding, which, let's be real is actually a more morally acceptable endeavour than a lot of the dance music industry today. that being said it's not coming to the hood any ttime soon.
 

bassbeyondreason

Chtonic Fatigue Syndrome
Getting rid of the projections would be a start. Also more vibe-conducive live actions than "endless focused typing", whether that's through custom GUIs, mapping controllers etc.
 

bassbeyondreason

Chtonic Fatigue Syndrome
From a recent algorave callout: "Algoraves focus on humans making and dancing to music. Algorave musicians don’t pretend their software is being creative, they take responsibility for the music they make, shaping it using whatever means they have. More importantly the focus is not on what the musician is doing, but on the music, and people dancing to it."

I'm less interested in the "algorave" concept than the sonic outcomes (e.g. euclidean polyrhythms) and moves towards non-timeline/piano roll based production.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
From a recent algorave callout: "Algoraves focus on humans making and dancing to music. Algorave musicians don’t pretend their software is being creative, they take responsibility for the music they make, shaping it using whatever means they have. More importantly the focus is not on what the musician is doing, but on the music, and people dancing to it."

I'm less interested in the "algorave" concept than the sonic outcomes (e.g. euclidean polyrhythms) and moves towards non-timeline/piano roll based production.

Actually I'm totally 100% for a self-generating complex system being set up and left abandoned with no controller for the rave. perfect. a basement, a red light and a vibe. perfect, what's versions trepidation here?
 

muser

Well-known member
I'm far from expert on algorave so please correct me if I'm wrong, never been to one either just seen videos. But from what I gather they use Python to code, someone mentioned earlier about autechre et al. It's basically very similar to what they were doing, autchre used max/msp which is just a more visual version but still basically objective programming. It's more impressive though, and when it comes down to it in a live setting that makes it more enjoyable I imagine.

Deep learning and music or any art is an interesting area, kind of beyond the defined parameters of algorithmic generative music and into something that makes have to ask ourselves some difficult questions in the future perhaps
 

mvuent

Void Dweller
those were good questions imo version. was watching videos trying to figure out how much coding is normally done on the fly, but maybe it's usually just a matter of changing parameters and taking functions(?) in and out. which seems like something you could intuitively handle in a more "loosened" mental state.
 

mvuent

Void Dweller
For example, looking at the micro scale things like reverb, analog filters/waveforms, artefacts from resolution
this is very similar to the blog post I mentioned. https://aestheticcomplexity.wordpre...ter-fatigue-and-the-rise-of-sonic-complexity/

would you say there's a meaningful distinction here between complexity (the term used in there) and chaos, in the sense that you're talking about?


the subconscious choices made by the producer or musician are all chaotic in nature.
maybe the stuff in this thread is (or can be) one form this appears as?
 

muser

Well-known member
this is very similar to the blog post I mentioned. https://aestheticcomplexity.wordpre...ter-fatigue-and-the-rise-of-sonic-complexity/

would you say there's a meaningful distinction here between complexity (the term used in there) and chaos, in the sense that you're talking about?



maybe the stuff in this thread is (or can be) one form this appears as?

Enjoyed that allot and in this context I think yes it's the same thing the writer is talking about..

Technically chaos is something that can have a clear starting point but through iterations the exact outcome is impossible to predict (plucking of a string) whilst a synthesized sounds could be very complexbut be predictable and repetetive. White noise is pure complexity in sound which is (and I'm getting a bit out of my depth here so any mathmetitians feel free to knock me down) pure randomness. Randomness and Chaos are totally different.

And yes theyd be an example, I'd go so far as to argue that any music made by humans has a degree of chaos as every decision we make, live or not, is effected by a plethora of inputs and as such creates intrinsically chaotic outputs.
 
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DLaurent

Well-known member
Enjoy listening to Eno speaking about this. Here he talks about the evolutionary basis for our attraction to loop based music.


And so it follows that microvariations kick off in the brain. And at the other end, purely stochastic music that I think has a lot of more potential than what Xenakis did considering how easy it is to set up in a DAW now.
 
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mvuent

Void Dweller
yeah, eno's point about how exact repetition is basically a "fad" in the larger history of music is really interesting. imo you're right that it does partly explain why the stuff in this thread is appealing.

also interesting how he stresses the appeal of one-off experiences. personally I'm not sure I agree; if I hear something interesting I'd want to be able to hear it again. (which almost contradicts my agreeing w/ his first point, but still.) the idea of playing with a set of possibilities until something amazing and unexpected occurs is very exciting though.
 

mvuent

Void Dweller
And yes theyd be an example, I'd go so far as to argue that any music made by humans has a degree of chaos as every decision we make, live or not, is effected by a plethora of inputs and as such creates intrinsically chaotic outputs.
so what? what's the significance for listeners/artists of chaos always being present? (if you think there is any)
 
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