Corpsey

call me big papa
I find some of the most poignant pieces of music to be ostensibly happy - "Rock with You" by Michael Jackson, e.g. is about being in love, dancing, being young - but I think even when I was younger it made me sad. I guess because of the jazzy harmonies or something. But also I found it so achingly beautiful that i was saddened knowing life is just a temporary thing.
 

CrowleyHead

Well-known member
Well then it's not for you to figure out until you get around to it if you want. I'm sure the rest of the board can enjoy.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
It's not a pure ideal, it's a notion. That's why the whole drive of solving the hyperconservative nostalgist impulse with Logic is impossible. Melancholia is an illogic because it's a feeling based on notions. The problem is we often convince ourselves that the detraction of these notions away from absolutism is leading us astray, into chaotic objectivism.

Right. there is a notion of *a nonexistent* but something that one has been convinced of, ideal. indulging in this too much can be worse than golden age thinking. golden age thinking at least has a metric of innovation or progression or combination. melancholy is an obscuring fetish.
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
Right. there is a notion of *a nonexistent* but something that one has been convinced of, ideal. indulging in this too much can be worse than golden age thinking. golden age thinking at least has a metric of innovation or progression or combination. melancholy is an obscuring fetish.

Are you two on drugs?
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
It's not a pure ideal, it's a notion. That's why the whole drive of solving the hyperconservative nostalgist impulse with Logic is impossible. Melancholia is an illogic because it's a feeling based on notions. The problem is we often convince ourselves that the detraction of these notions away from absolutism is leading us astray, into chaotic objectivism.

I'm not assuming this is without substance. Quite the opposite. I'm assuming there is substance and I would like to have it communicated to me so I can think about it and engage with it. That's conversation.

If Crowley won't help me surely someone else can?
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
I can't understand a single sentence of that paragraph. I would like to but it is not written in English. It is written in Crowleyese, a language only you have the key to. You have to be more patient with us and write in language we understand.

I need to know what a notion is. That is in no way clear.

I need to know what on earth the hyperconservative nostalgist impulse might be. I have never heard of this organisation.

I need to know what drive intends to 'solve' the hyperconservative nostalgist impulse.

I need to know what solve means in this context.

I need to know why it can't be solved with logic.

I need to know what an illogic is.

I need to know what a feeling based on notions could possibly be.

I need to know why it's status as a feeling based on notions confirms it as an illogic.

The last sentence is too convoluted and obscure to even tease apart into its constituent elements.

There is a problem, the problem in fact, and it lies in convincing ourselves of something or other.

I can't figure out what we are convincing ourselves of. I also don't have the faintest idea what chaotic objectivism is.

Can you please help me out a little bit? I am lost.

Let's do it! Hermeneutics!
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
Right. there is a notion of *a nonexistent* but something that one has been convinced of, ideal. indulging in this too much can be worse than golden age thinking. golden age thinking at least has a metric of innovation or progression or combination. melancholy is an obscuring fetish.

There seems to be some theory of the emotions at work. I wonder if the theory is that music precedes the emotion? It's incredibly strange and exotic whatever it is. I can almost see it in the corner of my eye. Perhaps it has to do with all the Adorno these two have been trying to swallow?
 
It's not a pure ideal, it's a notion. That's why the whole drive of solving the hyperconservative nostalgist impulse with Logic is impossible. Melancholia is an illogic because it's a feeling based on notions.

I think he means it's not anout an ideal because its a hazy subjective thing that can't be dilineated into certain characteristics and measured against standards. It's the reductive, simplifying, romanticising lament thing we talked about with corpsey yesterday.

The problem is we often convince ourselves that the detraction of these notions away from absolutism is leading us astray, into chaotic objectivism.

not sure. maybe that the reason we can't let go, or use what you were calling 'the cut'is because we think the cut, the matter of factness is lobotomising us, and we're in love with this what-if, impressionist, notional gaze... the cut = chaotic objectivism?
 

Simon silverdollarcircle

Well-known member
Kompakt did a load of melancholic house stuff back in the day didn't they. I think they described it as "sitting on the beach, missing your girlfriend ". Which sounds a bit shit but they were on to something

Sounds good on drugs on the dancefloor. The confluence of ecstasy and melancholy. That sense of wallowing, of softness, thats common to both
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
You can hit some great expanses of voluptuous melancholy post peak. Drug euphoria leaching out of you. The great tide receding
 
Its fixed once we hit a certain age. Once you realise you’re going to die there’s a melancholy tone to everything, even if it’s slight. Ache of finitude is the phrase a friend used. ‘Mortality salience’
 
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