thirdform

Well-known member
yeah maybe. again though I tend to hold back because unless you're on very very good terms with the guides it's hard to know a guides motivations, noone wants to sit around sober dealing with someone's first mushroom trip out of love, anyone who says so is telling porkie pies imo.

Idk I think we have to make the world a less schizophrenic place and then encourage psychedelics if that makes sense. I don't think my psychotic beak was a mental illness, this country is paranoid. people with weaker skin than me with no experience have collapsed under its pressure.
 

luka

Well-known member
How do you impose a framework? Obviously I have been taking that stuff non stop for twenty years so Im Not opposed to it. I'm very fond of it. But Im Not sure it has a built in moral compass. Many many people take them and turn into nazis.
 

luka

Well-known member
I would never ever have a guide. Alone by preference. Other people can lead you into choppy waters.
 

pattycakes_

Well-known member
yeah maybe. again though I tend to hold back because unless you're on very very good terms with the guides it's hard to know a guides motivations, noone wants to sit around sober dealing with someone's first mushroom trip out of love, anyone who says so is telling porkie pies imo.

Yeah set and setting is always key. So you'd do it with people you were close to ideally. And maybe that could spread outwards engendering a more compassionate environment in general which I think deep down is what most people would like no matter how hard a shell they've built up over the years.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
How do you impose a framework? Obviously I have been taking that stuff non stop for twenty years so Im Not opposed to it. I'm very fond of it. But Im Not sure it has a built in moral compass. Many many people take them and turn into nazis.

and nazis do love communing with nature. environmentalism was a big part of the nazi movement.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
Yeah set and setting is always key. So you'd do it with people you were close to ideally. And maybe that could spread outwards engendering a more compassionate environment in general which I think deep down is what most people would like no matter how hard a shell they've built up over the years.

Nazis were in some senses compassionate to their own racist and anti-semitic types weren't they. to the ideal representation of their own. in fact that was one of their strengths. we are all comrades in war. i treat you like a comrade, not a friend. all friendships ultimately have subtle personal motivations involved which can skew ethical balance. we all hold our friends to much lower standards than people we work with.
 

pattycakes_

Well-known member
Idk I think we have to make the world a less schizophrenic place and then encourage psychedelics if that makes sense. I don't think my psychotic beak was a mental illness, this country is paranoid. people with weaker skin than me with no experience have collapsed under its pressure.

For damn sure. By no means am I suggesting we get started on this right away. And anyway it looks like there are movements in this direction all over the place underway as we type. Baby steps for now. But time is also of the essence.
 

luka

Well-known member
and nazis do love communing with nature. environmentalism was a big part of the nazi movement.

I mean the Nina/josef thing is partly a psychedelic thing. And I don't know how far either of them have gone to the dark side actually. I don't know. But the idea that when people take psychedelics they automatically start thinking just like us is inane unfortunately. When you open yourself up any spirit can move in, good or bad or chaotic. This is the nature of the thing.
 

pattycakes_

Well-known member
I would never ever have a guide. Alone by preference. Other people can lead you into choppy waters.

Me too. But back in the day it would have been better than being around the drongos I was with who didn't help at all.

I hope I didn't come across as saying this would be an automatic fix fellas. I did mention casualties just a few posts ago. It's a true freedom because you're literally taking everything into your own hands. And you're absolutely open to going in any and every way possible. Infinite directions. Explode the self. But there are things we have forgotten. Things we can reconnect with that are for sure forces of good. Forces which could maybe hit the brakes on our slow but sure slide back toward the primordial ooze.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
For damn sure. By no means am I suggesting we get started on this right away. And anyway it looks like there are movements in this direction all over the place underway as we type. Baby steps for now. But time is also of the essence.

Well, that time being of the essence (we're literally talking 30 years for some significant changes to take place) means that any rupture is going to be very violent and sobering. and I do think the kind of culture built up around psychedelia blinds people to this. this is why i like to listen to gabba and hard acid on psychedelics. i don't think revolution or conscious change of the species or planetary management or what have you is going to be an act of joy, it will be a buzzkill. 'it is defeat you must learn to prepare for' etc...
 

thirdform

Well-known member
easy to say make love not war but do most deadheads actually realise how colossal a US iran conflict would be in the longterm? of course not. it is worth murdering anyone in the US govt for that to stop.

Although I absolutely 100% unequivocally condone killing for the sake of murder or murder for the sake of protest. that has historically never ever worked.

But pacifism itself is a murderous ideology. if a serial killer threatens children and you refuse to act, then who becomes complicit?
 
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pattycakes_

Well-known member
Well, that time being of the essence (we're literally talking 30 years for some significant changes to take place) means that any rupture is going to be very violent and sobering. and I do think the kind of culture built up around psychedelia blinds people to this. this is why i like to listen to gabba and hard acid on psychedelics. i don't think revolution or conscious change of the species or planetary management or what have you is going to be an act of joy, it will be a buzzkill. 'it is defeat you must learn to prepare for' etc...

Yeah I don't think joy should be the focus tbh. It's too fleeting. That's a bad axis to put in the centre. And neither do I think the psychs should be the thing things revolve around. Reconnecting to things we lost during the industrial age would be a better focus imo. Also incorporating new things we've learned like the power of open communication.

I just finished this huge book about education and how it was reshaped by powerful business people at the turn of the 20th c in America and then shipped literally world wide. So many of societies ills are easily decoded with this knowledge. We've been led down the wrong path and it doesn't take psychs to turn around. They may speed it up. But as long as some 'get it' they can do the hard work for the rest. As I already said, things are moving in this direction already anyway.

But pacifism itself is a murderous ideology. if a serial killer threatens children and you refuse to act, then who becomes complicit?

Nobody said anything about that. I'm not a hippy. And it's not like I have a whole plan for society mapped out in my head. It's going to take a lot of work, talk, thinking.

I'm still leaning more toward we're fucked more than anything. But after the book I'm fuelled with some ideas for sparking some hope. In myself at least. Was needed
 

thirdform

Well-known member
Yeah I don't think joy should be the focus tbh. It's too fleeting. That's a bad axis to put in the centre. And neither do I think the psychs should be the thing things revolve around. Reconnecting to things we lost during the industrial age would be a better focus imo. Also incorporating new things we've learned like the power of open communication.

I just finished this huge book about education and how it was reshaped by powerful business people at the turn of the 20th c in America and then shipped literally world wide. So many of societies ills are easily decoded with this knowledge. We've been led down the wrong path and it doesn't take psychs to turn around. They may speed it up. But as long as some 'get it' they can do the hard work for the rest. As I already said, things are moving in this direction already anyway.



Nobody said anything about that. I'm not a hippy. And it's not like I have a whole plan for society mapped out in my head. It's going to take a lot of work, talk, thinking.

I'm still leaning more toward we're fucked more than anything. But after the book I'm fuelled with some ideas for sparking some hope. In myself at least. Was needed

no no no I'm not saying you advocate that line I'm sorry. As you said earlier the bozos you first indulging in fucking up yer head with can spout all this shit but all it means is i'm unwilling to deal with the real consequences of the world. I also indulged a few times with such types.

I just want to make it clear I'm talking about a culture here and not individuals. like cultures i don't like can produce some great music but they are still crap cultures. do you feel me?
 

thirdform

Well-known member
I am saying the modern psychedelic culture has produced some valuable insights that we should learn from, drug consuming or sober, but that that is outwayed by the shit that was willlingly (to a very large extent) accrued around it.
 

pattycakes_

Well-known member
Right yeah, gotcha. It's all pretty sensitive stuff and should be treated with the utmost respect. Ain't no Tom n Jerry shit
 
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