version

Who loves ya, baby?
His friend, Richard Farina, died in a mysterious motorcycle accident and Bob Dylan, also a friend of Farina's, got into a similar one and almost died too. I've wondered whether a certain line from the 'Byron the Bulb' episode in GR was in reference to that,

Prophets traditionally don’t last long—they are either killed outright, or given an accident serious enough to make them stop and think, and most often they do pull back.
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
Let's read this

this is well worth a read btw
 

entertainment

Well-known member
The literal conspiracy theory hermeneutics I find pretty boring, but I like them from a metaphorical point of view.

In Eyes Wide Shut there's that constant sense of oppressive secrecy, dark forces, strings being pulled in every shadow of the streets. He shot it all on a set, all the street scenes are set up for the movie. Everything is there for a reason. Everything has a significance. This mirrors conspirational thinking, where every little thing can be interpreted in regards to their dark side.

The film is oversaturated with symbolism. It's everywhere in every scene. The masks, the newspaper headlines, the remarks, the facial expressions. Everything is a symbol in the sense that it's one side of a coin and it lets you know that there's another side without revealing the content of that side. I don't think the symbolism itself is as important as the point about everything being symbolism.

Another situation where this thing occurs is in dreams and the film is obviously very heavy on dreams. Both the wife's actual dreams but everything that happens to Tom Cruise also seems so dreamlike. The dead guy's daughter wanting to fuck him, the prostitute sequence that's cut short because of the call from his wife, which 'awakens' him. The call doesn't change anything, he could still fuck the prostitute, but it is a sudden reminder of reality, of the daytime world, of love. (Love vs. sex is really the key duality in the film. Love is the light side of the coin to sex's dark side).

Of course the main sequence is dreamlike as well. That whole night reminded me of my erotic dreams where I'm always within reach of the actual sexual act but never consummates it.

The point is that in dreams, everything is there for a reason too. It's there for you to see it and experience it's effect and control, like in conspirational thinking. (Also like in films as a representational artform. There are also recurring winks at the audience that what we're watching is a film, little ironic clues)

It all ties up in this sense that we go somnambulist through life, constantly repressing, forgetting, ignoring what really goes on and I think that's the most brilliant thing about this film.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Good points in there, about symbolism etc
This thread is really making me want to check out this film again cos I remember it (barely) as something I watched and thought was ok 15 years ago or whatever but now it suddenly sounds a lot more interesting. And if the point of criticism is a kind of dialogue between the film and the critic to tease out the best points then there must have been some good criticism above I guess.
 

poetix

we murder to dissect
Moment of pleasing synchronicity: I browse from FB, where I have just left this comment -

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to Dissensus, where this thread appears as the most recently updated in its category
 

poetix

we murder to dissect
Maybe the interesting question is: supposing the Kubrick wasn't in fact trying to use his films to send coded messages about things he knew but wasn't at liberty to divulge directly, what is it about Kubrick's films that makes people think that something like this might be going on?
 

version

Who loves ya, baby?
Maybe the interesting question is: supposing the Kubrick wasn't in fact trying to use his films to send coded messages about things he knew but wasn't at liberty to divulge directly, what is it about Kubrick's films that makes people think that something like this might be going on?
I'd say it's the reputation for perfectionism and attention to detail coupled with the subject matter. He's discussing aliens and cults and the military-industrial complex and his films are full of striking images and strange details. They're like a magic eye.
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
Maybe the interesting question is: supposing the Kubrick wasn't in fact trying to use his films to send coded messages about things he knew but wasn't at liberty to divulge directly, what is it about Kubrick's films that makes people think that something like this might be going on?
i thought the essay i linked to yesterday was a decent stab at an answer
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
Maybe the interesting question is: supposing the Kubrick wasn't in fact trying to use his films to send coded messages about things he knew but wasn't at liberty to divulge directly, what is it about Kubrick's films that makes people think that something like this might be going on?
another possibilitiy is that his paranoia pointed him in particular directions and he used the films as probes, potentially to provoke a response or to make Them think he knew more than in fact he did.
 
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