Why the long face?

thirdform

Well-known member
being moody is necessary. like Dave Clarke once said, if a dj is stood there moody detached from the crowd you know they are doing their business. if not, it's happy clappy jumpy nina kraviz trying to boost her marketting profile by posting a pick of her in cornrows and wanting to be sincerely attacked. always stay moody, never smile. when people started smiling in drum and bass the genre was ruined for the most part. ban smiling!
 

version

Well-known member
Is there a racial element here, do you think?
I did wonder that, but then I feel the same way about XXXtentacion as I do a black metal band so I don't think it's crucial.
Sorry to be boring, but I think a lot of it is just down to whether you like the music and the aesthetics or not. If you basically buy into the artist on an emotional level then you can take all the portentousness and worldbuilding as being part of the ride, if not then it seems like a load more wanking around to dress up an already crap project.
What if you're into two moody acts, but one seems sillier than the other? I like both UR and The Birthday Party and I think The Birthday Party are much more po-faced and ridiculous than UR.
I don't recognize this. Drexciya is pretty colorful, quirky, melancholic and just plain wierd. The mythos is more like a cartoon, in the best way.
I don't see how that runs counter to what I said. They're still deadly serious about it. As far as I can tell, there's no knowing wink or implication that they're anything other than 100% committed.
 
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thirdform

Well-known member
why the fuck do u wanna smile in a club when you're fucked up on an inane chemical that gives u a 30 minute happy tingly glow of love? heed the teachings of the master third.
 

Leo

Well-known member
What if you're into two moody acts, but one seems sillier than the other? I like both UR and The Birthday Party and I think The Birthday Party are much more po-faced and ridiculous than UR.

cuz the birthday party were all junkies!

I'd say a fair amount of humor goes into a writing a song called "Big Jesus Trash Can".

also, let's not forget...

https://youtu.be/dBZMAddjPME
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
Is there a racial element here, do you think?
not necessarily racial, but there's something about distance from someone else's experience

I have to think - someone correct me if I'm wrong - the audience for UR/Drexciya/etc is overwhelmingly white and European

in any case, not people who have any idea what growing up and living in Detroit is like

the audience for black metal is definitely overwhelmingly white, and mostly European and likely relatively affluent, but so are the artists

it's harder to take it seriously when you have personal knowledge of what's behind the mask
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
the "authentic" element of the black metal attitude was in fact the nihilistic (not the interesting kind) rebellion against staid, homogenous, middle-class European comfort

look up Euronymous - the dude Varg killed - and his fascination with the most totalitarian of communist dictatorships like Albania and North Korea

meanwhile Varg was a teenage Nazi skin way before he ever joined the Norwegian early black metal scene

the sub-Tolkien stuff does come off as hackneyed, because it's delivered with same the dead-serious attitude as the nihilist, miserablist, side
 

thirdform

Well-known member
majority of lil wayne audience is also white so not sure whats that supposed to prove and not just because he's pop music.

hip hop is the alt rock of the 2010s. and that in itself was the biggest kick in the teath for me.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
Look at how po faced Mobb Deep were. Not even a hint of a smirk throughout the whole 'The Infamous'.
and look how big a deal it was when Jay-Z outed them on Takeover - i.e. "when I was pushin' weight back in '88/you was a ballerina, I got the pictures, I seen ya"

they never really recovered from it

of course "authenticity" in rap was a much, much bigger deal 20 years ago, and Hawaiian Sophie Jay ain't exactly a shining beacon of it himself

but it speaks to how he was basically able to shrug it off, and they weren't

When it turns you actually went to art high school, it's hard to reconcile with a relentlessly grimdark existence of stabbing faces with nose bones

whereas Jay always had a reasonably clear sub-text - I'm a business, man
 

version

Well-known member
I find characters like Mark E. Smith interesting. He was serious, visible and a twat but also a total enigma. I feel as though I could read hundreds of interviews with him and still find him mysterious.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
Minor Threat, Black Flag etc. totally earnest faces. All the time.
well, a few things

first, they all outgrew it pretty quickly. MT did "Salad Days". Flag grew their, slowed way the hell down, did "Slip It In", etc.

second, early hardcore that was earnest was definitely earnest but it's hard to call it a pose. it was legitimate teenage idiot energy music.

third, there was an element of irony present right from the beginning

what was - probably still is - incredibly self-serious was vegan sXe hardcore of the 90s and beyond

even leaving out the literal proto-fascists (i.e. hardline), a more po-faced music has likely never existed
 

version

Well-known member
I have to think - someone correct me if I'm wrong - the audience for UR/Drexciya/etc is overwhelmingly white and European

Stingray's said there's a much bigger audience for stuff like Drexciya in Europe than there is in the US. He ended up moving to Berlin himself.

 
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version

Well-known member
The thing about distance makes sense, but then again I find the Japanoise stuff pretty ridiculous and I have no experience of Japan or what it's like to be Japanese.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
but it's also about the stance

Japanoise isn't trying to be self-serious, as far as I know, definitely not in the way European and American dark ambient, power electronics, etc seems to try to be

I guess it depends what you mean by Japanoise, but Merzbow doesn't come off that way. Boredoms are patently ridiculous.

the Les Rallizes Denudes do come off like that, but that dude seems like he was deeply on his own personal Velvet Underground trip.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
distance isn't the only factor, it just seems like a better, more accurate way to put it than just race

seriousness also gets into authenticity, which is its own, deeply fraught topic

does it feel like this artist have the moral right to this stance? why or why not?
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
some of it definitely is, as slothrop said above, just down to whether you like something or not

one thing I know - if the serious artistic stance is knowing, fine - but if it's 100% serious, it had better be 100% serious with no winking, ever
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
they can't necessarily be separated

you've started a lot of interesting - to me - thread topics lately, mostly because they're things without easy, or any, answers
 

thirdform

Well-known member
problem with dubstep wasn't its seriousness, early youngsta sets are still the business, dark cavernous slowed down 96 era dnb business with some 2000s grimey/techno sounds, problem is it just got way too referential to 70s reggae. problem is a nineteensomething from oakland is not going to know about bass culture or science from 5 bob marley records so it will just come across as cringe. integration not fusion is the key. dubstep after 2008 outside of the more darker/aggier end got too fusiony.
 
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