sadmanbarty

Well-known member
My gran referred to Jews as “the race”.

Her husband (my grandfather) however committed war crimes by dropping bombs on civilians in Hamburg so as a family I’d say we balance out as pro-Semitic
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
If joseph k contributes to this thread, he’ll set himself up for another year of “are you triggered by my free speech snowflake?” speaking engagements at wayward European universities.

It’ll be brilliant. Nina will do a blog about cancel culture. John will be disappointed. Me and luke will be levelling accusations of folkloric sex crimes at poor jo nonstop and then being genuinely mystified he won’t embrace our offers for friendship.

Just like the good old days of the Joseph k thread
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
Is antisemitism a big part of Black Nationalism?

Padraig always links to that James Baldwin essay about the roots of black suspicion of Jews. He really likes that piece.
because it's an excellent essay by a singularly brilliant writer with a deep insight into the topic by virtue of both his talent and the facts of his life

here it is

he correctly identifies the surprising lack of black-Jewish solidarity as Jews having "become white" in the Noel Ignatiev sense

the relevant quote

"In the American context, the most ironical thing about Negro anti-Semitism is that the Negro is really condemning the Jew for having become an American white man--for having become, in effect, a Christian"

he also gets at without explicitly stating the divide and conquer element of pitting Jews and African Americans against one another (as indeed the Irish and blacks had been previously)

that divide and conquer is definitely present in the relationship of Black Nationalism to antisemitism

definitely not always present, but when it is - i.e. Farrakhan - you might say it is a particularly unfortunate version of the "socialism of fools", whether or no it's actually socialism
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
Israel is a wealthy, powerful regional power with one of the most powerful militaries on earth, extensive trade, arms and political links to many Western countries and virtually no compunction in using whatever means at its disposal to gain strategic and political advantage. There is a long, storied and well documented history of Israeli lobbying and psyops in Europe, the US and globally. Dozens of credible books have been written about this and Israeli politicians and ministers often boast about their accomplishments in memoirs, biographies and public statements. This is aside from Israel's numerous and well organised Hasbara campaigns, which go back decades.
all true

equally true - charging the Labour Party with antisemitism while simultaneously ignoring it elsewhere, especially Tory antisemitism, is a cynical, morally indefensible (if successful) campaign tactic

having said that - Corbyn has still done some uncomfortable things with unsavory people. how one feels about it is up to the individual voter.

I think luka is right here

That anyone in his position supporting the righteous Palestinian cause will be subject to the whole range of dirty tricks assisted by Zionists in high places.

And if I'm right then that attitude alone could very easily make him disregard very valid warning signs in the party as a whole and also within his own heart.

and that - minus the bit about Zionist dirty tricks - was essentially what I was trying to say the whole time

heart, right place (or at least what he believes to be the right place). actions, not always.

and the response to the antisemtism charges - as unfairly exaggerated as they may be - has been undeniably totally ham-fisted and counterproductive
 

version

Well-known member
Dimi Reider
‏Verified account @reider

[Shomrim chairman, Rabbi Herschel] Gluck confirmed that Corbyn “phoned to find out what happened and to express his shock and empathy with the community”.

He added: “We deeply appreciate his concern. He sounded extremely genuine. He was the only party leader who called."

 

DannyL

Wild Horses
The submission of Jewish Lablour Movement to the EHRC's report into Labour has been leaked. This dude has gone through it all, and highlights sections in this thread. To say it's damning is an understatement:

 
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