droid

Beast of Burden
Another blow for the anti-vaxxers. The BCG vaccine is now being clinically tested in 4 countries as its posited that lack of childhood symptoms may be a result of kids getting the jab.
 

Leo

Active member
we're now being told we should masks whenever we go outside. things have been nuts for awhile but this brings it to a creepier level when every person you see on the street will be wearing one. christ.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Yeah that hit me in the supermarket last time... it's not compulsory but a lot of people are wearing them. The new normal like I said.
 

martin

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we're now being told we should masks whenever we go outside. things have been nuts for awhile but this brings it to a creepier level when every person you see on the street will be wearing one. christ.
I've been doing this for 2-3 weeks, lol. Also been using a scarf, rioter-style - probably the only time I'll ever be allowed into a supermarket looking like that. It seems half and half where I live. My heart did swell a bit with pride for humanity when I saw some bloke pull his mask down to light up a cigarette. Admittedly, it pleases my melodramatic streak and sometimes makes me think I'm in Tokyo, so I'm not too worried...

THEN I see some YT channel reminding people to remove their shoes when they come back home, to avoid trampling bat flu into the carpet, and I'm like...oh fuck, major oversight... Also, if you get it on your mask, you can smear it all over your face unless you take it off properly.

Part of me now wonders if I should just go out and try to get it. Get sick, get immune, go back to normal. It's a gamble but might eliminate some of the pressure.
 

catalog

Active member
when we've been going shopping, we wash our clothes and bags after we've been out, but i've just realised i don't bother with my actual jacket, which is the most exposed thing lol. found last shopping trip quite stressful, all the lines demarcating where you a resupposed to stand, which are being ignored by a lot of people, the one way system, staff telling you off. the supermarket workers are doing a lot right now. still cant get online shopping slot.
 

droid

Beast of Burden
The chances of bringing it on your shoes, bags, jacket, packaging etc is very low. The vast majority of infections are from direct droplet spread. If you wear gloves, take them off and bin them when your finished and then wash your hands you're 99% safe.

I really recommend not getting it if you can avoid it. Mild to moderate sounds pretty bad and its really not worth the chances of having a severe case.
 

HMGovt

Bamber Clatscoigne
I really recommend not getting it if you can avoid it. Mild to moderate sounds pretty bad and its really not worth the chances of having a severe case.
Yes, especially bearing in mind (hah) the apparent neurological symptoms that can occur in otherwise asymptomatic patients
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
I feel like a vise is slowly closing in on us... two days ago we went to the park and found that had been closed up, yesterday I went to the grocers on our street and bought a couple of bottles of wine (decent stuff for 2 euros) and saw all the perishable stuff had been cleared from the shelves, today it's not open at all. Thought I'd got used to the new normal but that's being chipped away at now too.. that grocers was a real good thing for me. Could be there in one minute and stock up cheaply without having to brave a long journey and then deal with a load of people in a supermarket. Was a Chinese couple who ran it and they were taking everything pretty seriously, had all this plastic hanging from the ceiling separating them from the customers and so on. Hope it's not gone forever. Cafe almost next door to it was still open though bizarrely, with someone sitting inside. Two cafes open on our street!
Now the bank has gone... it's all shuttered and they've taken away all the signage. Seems weird, I feel a national bank should be able to ride out something like this and keep paying its staff etc given the obscene profits they make. Either way that's another thing disappeared from our high street here.
 

martin

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I really recommend not getting it if you can avoid it. Mild to moderate sounds pretty bad and its really not worth the chances of having a severe case.
Yeah, you're right. Just feeling a bit nihilistic. 99%'s good odds :cool: As long as I don't burn the kitchen down.
 

catalog

Active member
The chances of bringing it on your shoes, bags, jacket, packaging etc is very low. The vast majority of infections are from direct droplet spread. If you wear gloves, take them off and bin them when your finished and then wash your hands you're 99% safe.
i think its a hangover from 'wash your hands' or 'wash your fucking hands' as i now prefer to say, following urbanomic. as in, this was the primary advice initially, from the government, but has somewhat crept out the picture a bit as 'social distancing' has become the new mantra.

i am disappointed with the messaging tbh - they should be better at the communication of the key stuff.
 

martin

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Less impressive: doctors and nurses still dealing with infectious patients without anything like the proper PPE.
Yeah, my sister came down with it almost immediately after being called in, has been out of action for nearly 2 weeks now. She's on the mend, fingers crossed, though lost her voice (insert mandatory sibling joke). I'm trying not to think about relapses...but yeah, the lack of proper PPE seems lunatic.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
They built the hospital quickly sure, but I understand it hasn't got half the resources of a normal hospital and it certainly hasn't got the ventilators it will need.
 

catalog

Active member
what is the reason for lack of ppe and testing. is it money or logistics or both? this is ultimately what this govt will get judged on i think. this is purely avout how effective they are, no ideology. the evidence they need to do certain things right now is so blatant.
 

droid

Beast of Burden
The main causes are political incompetence, lack of preparation, lack of planning, unwillingness to take the correct measures, failure to anticipate, and now, failure to act decisively. Its not confined to the UK, but its more stark there. After Italy, every country should have done more. Advanced economies could easily have repurposed and ramped up manufacturing to provide the necessary equipment. Instead we have individuals making them on 3D printers.

Its a massive political failure.
 

HMGovt

Bamber Clatscoigne
The main causes are political incompetence, lack of preparation, lack of planning, unwillingness to take the correct measures, failure to anticipate, and now, failure to act decisively. Its not confined to the UK, but its more stark there. After Italy, every country should have done more. Advanced economies could easily have repurposed and ramped up manufacturing to provide the necessary equipment. Instead we have individuals making them on 3D printers.

Its a massive political failure.
Not a management failure on the part of procurement teams in the NHS, who are actually paid primarily to ensure there are proper stocks of such things?

It's all too easy to fall into scoring political points in hindsight.
 

catalog

Active member
i think if dom wasnt sick he would have got it sorted. but yeah it just seems a total lack of effectiveness and incompetance which is inexcusable really. it reminds me of managers at work who cant do very simple IT things
 

catalog

Active member
Not a management failure on the part of procurement teams in the NHS, who are actually paid primarily to ensure there are proper stocks of such things?

It's all too easy to fall into scoring political points in hindsight.
well it must be a total bureaucratic nightmare, i understand that, there's a lot to mobilise. maybe that is part of it, too many fiefdoms and silos etc, little piles of power still working against each other. i can believe that actually.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
what is the reason for lack of ppe and testing. is it money or logistics or both? this is ultimately what this govt will get judged on i think. this is purely avout how effective they are, no ideology. the evidence they need to do certain things right now is so blatant.
I think it is about ideology because their ideology left them hugely unprepared. I mean in two ways really, for years they have underinvested in the health service and it's not where it should be, but even lately they had advance warning cos of what was happening elsewhere, and (although they could have never made up for the structural issues) they still could have at least been ahead of where they are. Maybe that was just stupidity and ineffectiveness but it was on top of and so compounding a failed ideology.
In a sane world this should see the total destruction of this iteration of the Tory party, anyone even vaguely connected leaving public life in disgrace, but who knows now? There are people who don't care if their family dies as long as Brexit isn't delayed.
 

droid

Beast of Burden
Not a management failure on the part of procurement teams in the NHS, who are actually paid primarily to ensure there are proper stocks of such things?

It's all too easy to fall into scoring political points in hindsight.

Ah, but they're never going to be prepared for something like this. The only way to deal with unprecedented demand is with unprecedented supply. There's no way a procurement office could have gotten hold of the necessary stocks without political input. Its the same problem everywhere.

And I dont think its hindsight, there were plenty of people screaming about this in February, in fact epidemiologists have been warning us for years. Even the two weeks wasted with the herd immunity bullshit would have made a difference.

When it come to existential threats the precautionary principle always comes into play. If we care about human life, then as societies we should be at least partially ready for this kind of shit.
 
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