IdleRich

IdleRich
Interesting debate about the efficacy of masks and the morality of enforcing wearing of masks inside. Many thought provoking points made here by a lot of very fine people.

 
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mixed_biscuits

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The fact that no-one wears goggles (proven benefit, no disadvantages) shows that no-one is actually thinking these things through for themselves...same applies to the absence of any clamour to wear masks in the home, where transmission is most likely

Masks have clearly been introduced only to encourage the people who the government scared to death to emerge from their burrows once more...
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
The fact that no-one wears goggles (proven benefit, no disadvantages) shows that no-one is actually thinking these things through for themselves...same applies to the absence of any clamour to wear masks in the home, where transmission is most likely
Lots of visors, particularly among train staff (legacy of the spitting murder)
 

mixed_biscuits

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Lots of visors, particularly among train staff (legacy of the spitting murder)
That's more like it...now I require gloves, gowns, proper masks that seal properly, humidity monitoring to prevent rebreathing particles in an aerosol, electrified face to prevent increased face-touching and loudspeaker system so that interlocutors don't need to approach the muffled voice.
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
these kinds of dilemnas are interesting arent they

'Jacinda Ardern has decried as “dangerous” her detractors’ calls to open New Zealand’s borders – or present a plan for how she will do so – as the country remains largely free of Covid-19 while the virus spreads abroad.


Telling reporters on Tuesday that she had heard “calls for our borders to be opened to the world”, the New Zealand prime minister referred to “a world where the virus is escalating not slowing and not even peaking in some countries yet, where cases exceed 10 million globally and deaths half a million, where countries are extending and returning to lockdown”.


“All of the while, we get to enjoy weekend sport, go to restaurants and bars, our workplaces are open, and we can gather in whatever numbers we like,” she said.'
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
If the US mimics bottom-of-the-heap lockdown-fanatics Belgium's death rate, they will have 270,000 dead - more than double.
The Belgian medical authorities have erred on the side of extreme conservatism and have listed all suspected covid-19 deaths as due to covid-19, even in the absence of positive tests, so they'll have counted all their deaths due to the virus and mistakenly counted some other deaths in with the total. Basically the opposite of what the UK government was doing back in April, when it was only counting deaths of patients who'd had a positive diagnosis while in hospital and was therefore massively undercounting.

Given the lack of health coverage for many Americans and the almost unbelievably terrible response to the pandemic from Trump, I strongly suspect that the USA's figures, huge as they are, are a massive under-count.
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Within the U.S., there are also discrepancies in rates between different states. After a group of epidemiologists requested revisions in how the CDC counts cases and deaths, the CDC in mid-April updated its guidance for counting COVID-19 cases and deaths to include both confirmed and probable ones, although each state can still determine what to report.[324] Without accurate reporting of cases and deaths, however, epidemiologists have difficulty in guiding government response.[325]

According to an excess mortality analysis of seven of the worst-affected states, there are an additional 9,000 deaths than expected from prior years which are not explained by official reported coronavirus mortality statistics. In these states the death rate was nearly 50% higher than baseline between March 8 and April 11. (Excess mortality is higher than these figures because some death certificates have yet to be processed and reported).[326]

The official figure on April 11 was 24,400, so if 9,000 extra deaths occurred, then that's over a third not being reported. Maybe they've fixed it since then to take that into account, but I dunno. But if not, then you can potentially add an extra 50k deaths to the current official toll of about 130k.
 

mixed_biscuits

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The majority of the publicised excess death figures are from simplistic calculations done in the service of prolonging the fear-mongering (sorry, flogging 'papers). For instance, in the UK, Oxford estimate the excess deaths to be less than half of the FT's estimate (as the former take account of population increases, seasonality and other factors not considered by the latter).
 
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