Listen to this part 3: Intensity

[droid]

Clearly identical.

 

[luka]

They actually do feel very similar. Kartel is a quintessentially Jamaican lyricist and performer in the grand tradition. Not afraid to show his soppy side. Very clever, very witty, very self aware. Very similar to yellow man indeed. I'm not sure there has been a precipitous moral decline since the 80s myself. In music or more generally across society.

 

[luka]

People threw up their hands in horror at yellowman, at capleton, at shabba, at Kartel. It's just what they do every generation.

 

[sadmanbarty]

Yuh pussy good like da high grade herb yah
Mek yuh move from di ghetto and go live a suburbia
Me deal wid yuh breast nipple like nipple bottle alacta one plus and gerber

 

[sadmanbarty]

They actually do feel very similar. Kartel is a quintessentially Jamaican lyricist and performer in the grand tradition. Not afraid to show his soppy side. Very clever, very witty, very self aware. Very similar to yellow man indeed. I'm not sure there has been a precipitous moral decline since the 80s myself. In music or more generally across society.

incredibly jamaican sense of humour.

 

[droid]

lol. Its like the difference between Something about Mary and hardcore porn.

 

[luka]

Where I can sympathise with droid is you listen to that intence thing and wince when he goes we fuck gyal and sell Coke it's so dumb I can understand if you're judging the whole field of contemporary dancehall on that one tune we've experienced a precipitous decline in standards no doubt at all

 

[droid]

"Yuh slip yuh slide, yuh broke ya back side"

vs

"Pussy open when cocky knock knock"

 

[luka]

But that intence thing has the worst lyrics of any song I've ever heard. I don't think it's representative

 

[luka]

Pussy open when cocky knock knock is not hardcore porn it's really charming and sweet and gentle

 

[droid]

Where I can sympathise with droid is you listen to that intence thing and wince when he goes we fuck gyal and sell Coke it's so dumb I can understand if you're judging the whole field of contemporary dancehall on that one tune we've experienced a precipitous decline in standards no doubt at all

Nah, I still listen to a fair amount of stuff, just not for very long. The trends are clear.

And generally, my issues aren't with slackness, its with the homogenisation of production style, lack of variation in themes and delivery and overt US influence.

 

[luka]

US influence waxes and wanes in my experience and I'm not sure it's necessarily a sign of declining standards. There might be other factors involved which cause that push and pull.

 

[luka]

But also I don't think many people would be happy to reject all 80s or 90s dancehall on the grounds that it was less 'innocent' than what preceded it. That would seem quite odd.

 

[droid]

US influence waxes and wanes in my experience and I'm not sure it's necessarily a sign of declining standards. There might be other factors involved which cause that push and pull.

It used to wax and wane - now it just waxes. Dancehall today is internationalised in a way it never was before. Dancehall traditionally revitalised itself from sources within Jamaica, with occasional interbreeding with the US, UK and other externals, but the last decade has seen a sea change, a break of the traditional cycles and influences.

That may be good or bad depending on your POV, but its definitely happened - and its not unique to Jamaica, though it is more noticeable as JA always had such a unique and original musical identity.

 

[luka]

That doesn't sound totally mad and certainly there are plenty of people within Jamacia who feel dancehall has lost its identity but I think it's still unique. I don't think anyone else could make music like that and I don't thInk you could sell that music to a mass audience in America either. You might think it sounds American but I'm pretty sure it would sound weird and alien to them.

 

[droid]

But also I don't think many people would be happy to reject all 80s or 90s dancehall on the grounds that it was less 'innocent' than what preceded it. That would seem quite odd.

Youre missing my point. its not the lack (or existence) of innocence, its the flattening of affect that comes from the lack of restriction.

 

[luka]

Maybe this moral decline thing could have its own thread. I'm not totally hostile to it. U.K. Drill being all about laughing about the time you stabbed some 15 year old to death feels like a decline from bashing a load of Es for instance. It's interesting to ask what's going on in music and how is that related to the world at large

 

[luka]

Youre missing my point. its not the lack (or existence) of innocence, its the flattening of affect that comes from the lack of restriction.

Ok. I don't understand that point I'm afraid. Could you possibly restate it for a thicko?

 

[droid]

That doesn't sound totally mad and certainly there are plenty of people within Jamacia who feel dancehall has lost its identity but I think it's still unique. I don't think anyone else could make music like that and I don't thInk you could sell that music to a mass audience in America either. You might think it sounds American but I'm pretty sure it would sound weird and alien to them.

It goes both ways - there's been a shitload of JA influence on the US pop charts as well. Jamaica now has a slightly more brooding, slightly more explicit version of a black international pop aesthetic.

 

[droid]

Ok. I don't understand that point I'm afraid. Could you possibly restate it for a thicko?

Having trouble articulating it actually. I guess I mean that if you are working in an environment where can say anything, then everyone will try and say the most shocking thing, and pretty soon, nothing is shocking - except restraint.