Kate Bush vs Madonna

[Corpsey]

What was the 90s voice?

American rock music had the Nirvana/Pearl Jam voice. I suppose a lot of it comes down to people imitating an original singer enjoying massive success. Or the massive success making labels look for people with similar voices.

Is it a stretch, then, to read something about society / mass psychology from whatever voice happens to be in vogue at the time? Could be completely arbitrary.

 

[luka]

We've talked about this a lot in various different threads.

 

[Corpsey]

But then at the same time That Voice then drives the music in a certain direction. e.g. the Grunge voice drives rock music in a very earnest, portentous direction, even when it's being used by bands like Creed and Nickelback who are a long way from the authenticity of Nirvana.

 

[luka]

Even if it was completely arbitrary the first thing we always do is discount that possibility entirely. It's the end of the conversation. And we want to extend the conversation.

 

[Corpsey]

Keep up at the back, there!

 

[Corpsey]

Even if it was completely arbitrary the first thing we always do is discount that possibility entirely. It's the end of the conversation. And we want to extend the conversation.

I don't think it has to be. Because as that clever chap Corpsey just said, that success then has repercussions. Clever fucker that guy.

 

[luka]

you can see this in broadcasting too. The patrician, RP, voices giving way in the '60s to a greater range of regional variants.

 

[Corpsey]

As you say though it isn't arbitrary, it can't be.

Cobain voice (/it's popularity) was presumably a reaction to Axel Rose voice.

I'm on jelly ground here cos I don't know shit about rock music.

 

[luka]

I don't think it has to be. Because as that clever chap Corpsey just said, that success then has repercussions. Clever fucker that guy.

But we also have to ask, why does it resonate at that time? What imbalance does it correct?

 

[Corpsey]

Sure this has been discussed in the 80s voice thread but with Madonna's voice I feel like nothing is being given away. There's no "real" personality there.

Bush's elaborate theatricality seems to be at least giving *something* away about her.

 

[Corpsey]

Billie Eilish is the new megastar, right? Who has she supplanted? Adele or Beyonce or something?

Clueless I am!

 

[luka]

Id say that manner of singing represents a value set and a way of being in the world.

That way of being may not in fact be possible outside of the song. The signing might be the expression of something that cannot be realised. But that's another matter.

 

[luka]

So one set of polarities, as you say, is performance vs truth. Kurt Cobain being felt to correct for Axl Rose.

 

[luka]

Billie Eilish is the new megastar, right? Who has she supplanted? Adele or Beyonce or something?

Clueless I am!

I don't think that always need to supplant something. But they can find space by representing a thing which has been left out of the other thing.

 

[luka]

These voices are partial images of life. They leave out whole other modes of feeling and experience.

 

[Corpsey]

Voices are a big time barrier thing aren't they.

Like imagine someone singing like Fred Astaire in 2020 :crylarf:

 

[luka]

Yes, exactly. Very much so.

 

[luka]

I thought this remark of Idle Richs on the Lana del Ray thread was good

And with the Hazlewood comparisons, although the sound is similar I think that Chris Isaak is closer because he and Lana Del Rey are similarly fake (for want of a better word but not intended as an insult here - you just couldn't be what Chris Isaak wanted to be be "for real" in the nineties

"You just couldn't be what Chris Isaak wanted to be in the nineties." That captures one of the crucial aspects of what we're talking about.

 

[luka]

These questions can be applied to the voice

what movements and manners does it map out? what elegances does it encode? what excellencies?
what sophistications of understanding and attainment?
what does it aspire to?
what is the good life?
how is time structured? and what pace does it move at? what does it feel like to be in a body moving at that tempo, and in that rhythm? is this a fairground ride or is it otherwise?
can you imagine talking like that? walking like that? feeling like that? where is the weight centred? are you light on the feet? marching?
do you not like it? what is it to not like it? what is causing the discomfort?
do you like it? what is it doing to you that feels good? why does it feel good?
is it redolent of an era? which era? what is it that ties it to its time? or what is it about its time that is preserved within it?
a comportment? a psychological attitude? a bearing towards the world? how is that enacted in the music?

 

[luka]

The Shout.