top piece from Blackdown on Pitchfork

mms

sometimes
yep he's quite right about the dmz night i can't wait till the next one.
it's really kick started a real sense of optimism about this music and a great deal of other stuff at the moment and i'm so excited i can hardly sleep at night.
his latest blog entry about scenes and mixing it up is excellent too. http://www.blackdownsoundboy.blogspot.com/

btw have you heard the new terror danjah 12"s - they are soooo goooood, taking on so many evolutions and quantum leaps so naturally as are the dmz boys in other directions.

and the jam pie record by wiley - fuck me its insanely good, so catchy and very lovely.

also on a hybrid tip, any one heard that 7" by various productions called hater?
it takes a kind of skeletal dubwise dubstep kinda bassline as its main riff with a gentle female souly/folky vocal, basically singing about how she's not perfect and quite nasty and whoever its aimed at can fuck off, as a vocal its got strange parallels with the merking side of grime but thru the lens of a male female relationship. its a bit like a lo fi devil mix in a sense.
it's boss.
 

mms

sometimes
that ep with a wiley mix and the 2 extra tracks including the riddim to neckle - that one - is that wiley - it's wicked
 

Logan Sama

BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
The side with 2 instrumentals are both by wiley.

Murkle Man instrumental and a tune called Tunnel Vision.

The other side is produced by Lewi White and vocalled by Ruff Sqwad and guests.
 

gumdrops

New member
i thought the piece was really good and accurate, but i dunno, the idea that grime cant be moved onto the album format without losing what makes it so good on pirates is a bit cynical i thought, seeing as boy in da corner did a pretty good job of it, without making blatant concessions to hip hop. also, i dont think theyre selling out per se, and even though they might have taken it upon themselves to go in their new direction, it doesnt mean its less of a compromise, even if it is self inflicted. i find it a tad dissapointing personally in light of the stuff both wiley and kano were saying prior to the album coming out that they wouldnt go a more commercial or at least, a more well-trodden path when their albums came out. also, the idea that they couldnt sonically assault the top 40 with innovative grime tunes (i dont need it to be aggi really or full of gun talk) when i luv u and stand up tall both got in the top 10 and top 30 respectively doesnt seem to add up. hopefully kano and roll deep will do well (kanos album is easily the more interesting of the two), but the issue of whether the doors wil later stay open or shut to them seems to suggest that the doors are only going to be open for those who basically make more standardised, or at least more tried and tested hip-hop.
 

Logan Sama

BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
Grime can be moved into an album format but you need a handful of tracks with a far less abrasive sound and therefore a more widespread appeal.

It is a softly softly process.
 

gumdrops

New member
Logan Sama said:
Grime can be moved into an album format but you need a handful of tracks with a far less abrasive sound and therefore a more widespread appeal.

It is a softly softly process.
i know it was over 15 years ago, but did public enemy need a less abrasive sound to have widespread appeal?
or more recently, boy in da corner was varied, modern, brand new, pretty abrasive, raw, uncompromised etc etc etc and still sold pretty well for what it was. and more than sales and pop chart positions, its made dizzee kind of a worldwide ambassador for grime, he gets to tour the globe, is respected by most, and gets to make whatever music he wants and has a career now.

im thinking that maybe some grime MCs just want to be popstars if all they want is widespread appeal by any means necessary. i dont get how people diss R&G for watering grime down cos theyre worried it will go commercial and soon enough grime MCs wont be interested in the hardcore stuff, yet theyre ok with the MCs making softer (or less/non-grime) music themselves and musically leaving the scene behind. its weird, i read interviews with various grime artists and none of them seem to want to claim part of grime, theyre all 'im not a grime artist, dont call me a grime artist!' im starting to wonder if anyone actually likes the music theyre making!
 
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Logan Sama

BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
Public Enemy were a gimmick act signed up by an established label which dealt exclusively with Hip Hop. There are no Grime labels.

The Roll Deep and Kano albums, if we are going to use Hip Hop parallels are akin to Sugar Hill Gang and Grandmaster Flash. So wait a few years before you can shift into the EPMD, NWA, Public Enemy era
 

Logan Sama

BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
gumdrops said:
i read interviews with various grime artists and none of them seem to want to claim part of grime, theyre all 'im not a grime artist, dont call me a grime artist!' im starting to wonder if anyone actually likes the music theyre making!
Mind if you tell me who you saw say that?
 
Public Enemy were a gimmick act? WTF?

Logan Sama said:
Public Enemy were a gimmick act signed up by an established label which dealt exclusively with Hip Hop. There are no Grime labels.

The Roll Deep and Kano albums, if we are going to use Hip Hop parallels are akin to Sugar Hill Gang and Grandmaster Flash. So wait a few years before you can shift into the EPMD, NWA, Public Enemy era

if you likening Roll Deep and Kano LP's to the SugarHill Gang and Grandmaster Flash where does Dizzee stand in all this?

I take it like this, Roll Deep and Kano must be scared at being pigeonholed or if the good ship garage/grime gets sunk again going down with it....I think it is a coward mentality especially when there names and credibilty are so strong....they actually risk losing cred by pulling these moves....for instace nii-o was telling me that the roll deep LP cover and kano's new vid was getting slewed on RWD mag forums the other day....

when it actually comes down to the music there are so many shades and textures to garage/grime and im not even talking about dubstep or the other variants....for instance if 'producers' stopped using notes and used chords you would see a huge difference in the music....sometimes I laugh when these mc's and producers ae tryna flee from garage/grime when they haven't even explored the possibilities of the music properly....slow down people....things take time....
 
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Blackdown

nexKeysound
gumdrops said:
but i dunno, the idea that grime cant be moved onto the album format without losing what makes it so good on pirates is a bit cynical i thought, seeing as boy in da corner did a pretty good job of it, without making blatant concessions to hip hop ... but the issue of whether the doors wil later stay open or shut to them seems to suggest that the doors are only going to be open for those who basically make more standardised, or at least more tried and tested hip-hop.
i am cynical, but cynical not about the artists but about the people in positions of power at major labels, broadsheets, commercial radio, TV etc on whom overground success relies. it's difficult to overstate how narrow minded and closed these kind of people can end up being.

and re Dizzee, the longer grime goes on the more Dizzee looks like being a bit of an anomaly. The Mercury Prize, his willingness to "play ball" with media, his age, his voice, the fact that he's not in a crew ... all these unique features played into his hand but are things that can't all be appropriated by other acts.
 

gumdrops

New member
Blackdown said:
i am cynical, but cynical not about the artists but about the people in positions of power at major labels, broadsheets, commercial radio, TV etc on whom overground success relies. it's difficult to overstate how narrow minded and closed these kind of people can end up being.

and re Dizzee, the longer grime goes on the more Dizzee looks like being a bit of an anomaly. The Mercury Prize, his willingness to "play ball" with media, his age, his voice, the fact that he's not in a crew ... all these unique features played into his hand but are things that can't all be appropriated by other acts.
the more grime artists rely on the majors, the commercial media outlets to help them make money and make a name for themselves, theyre always going to be in the pocket of those in power. which is why i respect dubstep artists more, cos they seem more organised, or at least more self sufficient, theyre fiercely independent, while grime artists seem indie not by choice but by circumstance (or lack of imagination). they want to preserve their own identity, they want to make music the way they want, theyre not willing to compromise in a deathly, premature rush to the top of the charts.

yeah, dizzee does look like an anomaly in terms of his attitude and way of doing things, but i wouldnt say others dont plan to follow in his footsteps. im sure soon enough, kano will disown the scene like dizzee has, he seems to be less vocal about any of his crew affiliations, and hes playing ball pretty nicely with the magazines and radio too.
 

Blackdown

nexKeysound
dubstep and grime have very different expectations. grime MCs wanna either be road or blow asap. they wanna do raves and radio until someone 'gives' them £40,000 to do a commercial LP, just like US hip hop artists.

Dubstep producers aren't allowed that kind of dream because they make instrumental music and 99% of all commercial radio/TV is song based. if it's gonna get done it's gonna be done by the scene.

it's short term v long term expectations really.

Drum n bass went through a major label courting phaze (Photek, Grooverider, Dillinja, Alex Reece, Goldie etc) with very mixed results, then they built their own infrastructure.

Wiley, always the visionary, talked on westwood about having his own label ('your own situation') and i think they've only licenced Relentless the LP, not signed it to them. could this be the beginning of a new phaze? White labels is one thing, building their own infrastructure is another...
 
Blackdown said:
dubstep and grime have very different expectations. grime MCs wanna either be road or blow asap. they wanna do raves and radio until someone 'gives' them £40,000 to do a commercial LP, just like US hip hop artists.

Dubstep producers aren't allowed that kind of dream because they make instrumental music and 99% of all commercial radio/TV is song based. if it's gonna get done it's gonna be done by the scene.

it's short term v long term expectations really.

Drum n bass went through a major label courting phaze (Photek, Grooverider, Dillinja, Alex Reece, Goldie etc) with very mixed results, then they built their own infrastructure.

Wiley, always the visionary, talked on westwood about having his own label ('your own situation') and i think they've only licenced Relentless the LP, not signed it to them. could this be the beginning of a new phaze? White labels is one thing, building their own infrastructure is another...
wiley isnt really a visonary though? he's actually taking a long time to realise something that I did when I was at uni....I don't understand why you hail him as such a visonary all the time when he's jus applying an idea that a lot of the US hip hop underground were doing for yonks....he's actually quite slow in my opinion and behind in a lot of respects except the music where he's still the top boy....
 
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