Obscured Epics

mvuent

Void Dweller
when an artist gets more ambitious that usual, you expect them to tout the results, and critics and audiences to pay attention. but sometimes that isn't the case, and you get a deep cut instead of a defining statement. it could be because the work in question flopped, but often (and more intriguingly) it's as if the creator wanted it to stay obscure.

what exactly "epic" entails is open to interpretation. it could be something longer, more expansive, more "all out" than usual--or it could be anything that feels particularly weird, one-off, special.

what are some good examples? is this even a real phenomenon or just wishful thinking?

(a legendary example might be the beatles' "carnival of light"--although afaik we can't hear any of it. so i guess you could distinguish between obscured and lost, but i'd be interested in examples of either kind.)
 

luka

Moderator
I don't understand what you had in mind exactly cos the examples just seem like generic tunes but in modernist literature this is a very real thing it's the cantos, it's maximus poems and it's Finnegans wake
 

mvuent

Void Dweller
I don't understand what you had in mind exactly cos the examples just seem like generic tunes but in modernist literature this is a very real thing it's the cantos, it's maximus poems and it's Finnegans wake
so for you it's a relevant concept in literature but doesn't make sense in regards to music?

i mean, i could try to explain why i posted the stuff above but it's not really supposed to be essential that everyone agrees on exactly what qualifies. it's not like if you post something i'm going to shout "WRONG!" like trump in the 2016 debates.
 

luka

Moderator
so for you it's a relevant concept in literature but doesn't make sense in regards to music?

i mean, i could try to explain why i posted the stuff above but it's not really supposed to be essential that everyone agrees on exactly what qualifies. it's not like if you post something i'm going to shout "WRONG!" like trump in the 2016 debates.
It's a relevant concept. Just can't see how you're working it wrt the examples given
 

mvuent

Void Dweller
to me the first four qualify in the 1st sense i mentioned--longer, more expansive, more "all out" than usual.

the fifth one qualifies in the 2nd sense--particularly weird, one-off, special. their take on chill out ambient. it's like a secret garden.

eurotechno is hard to explain, but when i stumbled on it i felt like i'd reached the center of a particular musical universe.
 

mvuent

Void Dweller
by "usual" i mean compared to the norms of the artist in question. or for the last one the norms of its genre.
 

mvuent

Void Dweller
blissblogger had the line about how after a certain point you tend to know more or less everything an artist can or will do, like know what someone is going to say before they even open their mouth.

when that happens it's disappointing, because what draws you to an artist of any medium is the sense that they always have more cards up their sleeve.

so one way of looking at this is that it's about when you thought you'd seen all the cards, but were proved wrong. quietly. without the world noticing and celebrating.
 

kumar

New member

i like the story of this one being the only track lou barlow was allowed to put on the album and the seething adolescent shame of explaining it to the mastering engineer and the ensuing tour causing him to begin leaving the group and retreat into sebadoh. i guess there is a long tradition of psychedelic freakout filler tunes at the end of the record but this one announces his personal project as well as capturing the awkward frigidity of their group dynamics in a special way.
 
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