The Last Flowering of the Future

thirdform

Well-known member
So the question could be rephrased, where's the future music that's actually bearable?


why does it need to be bearable? It reminds me of what DJ Scud said. you can take the populist hands in the air bombast of 91 rave, but without its happy lovey dovey elements.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
im in a hard acid gabba fury rn so will listen tomorrow.

but noone sits down and listens to a schoenberg composition from the 1920s and is like 'core, that's dated and conservative, let's listen to Philip Glass instead'

that's what im trying to get at. this says more about the short shelflife of pop music than anything else.
 

Simon silverdollarcircle

Well-known member
The question of the Future is always related, in these discussions - whether that's made explicit or not - to the idea of a Future Music that has some kind of intersection with the popular

Yep and I think that fundamentally effects how we hear it. Like is that music in the chal ravens link genuinely popular? Are there places where a gang of people get together on a regular basis and do drugs and stay up all night listening to it and get up to mischief and have epiphanies and then doit over again the next weekend and the next?

Because if so I think you can hear it differently. At the very least I'd reserve all judgement on it really if I wasn't in that scene and having those experiences, because it's obviously not for me, it's for those people in that scene.

Whereas if it's a bunch of hipsters searching for a new sound, with no real roots in a scene then it can be heard on its own terms.

I don't really like it but as I mentioned before in a luddite really. Just want that old mama heartbeat stuff.

On a sidenote a properly young person who works with my mate told him that he was well excited about this new music he was getting into called "house".

Also I remember interviewing Geeneus years ago who flat out denied that jungle was ever truly new music. His argument was - we all thought it was when we were teenagers but really it came from acid house, which came from disco etc. We only thought it was revolutionary because of ignorance. That was his view anyway.

Of course ignorance is a good starting point to make something radically new.
 
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luka

Well-known member
The fury that Bartys music taste provokes (not just in Thirdform, although he's always been the most outraged and incensed) is quite interesting in itself.

It's not because the music is big budget major label American, materialistic and vacuous, you could say the same about Timblaland and the Neptunes and they were universally lauded at the time and are completely canon now.
 

luka

Well-known member
There was even consensus as far as 2013 young thug. It's really only when you get to 2014 and beyond that the resistance creeps in. including from me. I wasn't a fan of this stuff at the time at all. If you want to know the case Bartys making this is the important thread

https://www.dissensus.com/showthread.php?t=14165&highlight=Atlanta

You can see me and Corpsey giving Barty untold grief here
 
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luka

Well-known member
Is it because it's a newness that isn't really related to the "nuum"?

Its a challenge to the prevailing orthodoxy

I was asking myself that. Wondering if Timbaland was a special case because we could tell ourselves he got the ideas from jungle and had 2step as an echo in return.
 

Simon silverdollarcircle

Well-known member
People have built their lives around the nuum and then he makes us listen to a load of good music that doesn't give a fuck about it!

We feel unsettled, unmoored. Leaderless, for a moment. But ultimately grateful
 
Festering in ignorance in the dark, like fungi, is key for weird futures to emerge, within a support network and feedback loop, but cut off from the main system for long enough... so they can sprout enough interesting shoots that spore and diversify so they can infect elsewhere before being picked off, eaten and assimilated.

Because if picked too early they’re too easily codified, there’s only a few shoots. Their genetic code, actions and affects are easily delineated.

Festering was a geographical thing before, and maybe a medium thing (restrictions of certain distribution channels eg dubplates) The internet makes festering very difficult now for a variety of reasons. But festering does occur, think 4chan, alt-right etc. Cultures that are hidden and incubated because of their repulsiveness or incompatibility. weird underworlds can thrive and come to influence mainstream culture in big ways.
 

luka

Well-known member
There is something funny about someone telling you this music's amazing and then you go no it's not it's shit. That's always a good laugh.
 

luka

Well-known member
what's the good in newness though anyway? for example the exciting thing about techno and house is not really how new they (once) were, but rather how *old* they are. bomp bomp bomp dance around the campfire with mind altering chemicals to the heart beat till the sun comes back. It's been there for 1000s of years. It's exciting, and it's transcendent but it doesn't have to be new. If anything it's exciting and it's transcendent because it's much deeper than novelty.

I listen to new music and yeah it's cool that people are still pushing boundaries. But, dunno, feels a bit moot when you're in the thick of things at a rave I think. as it should be.

disclaimer: I've not been raving properly in like 2 years.

I don't think newness is the only virtue. And I don't think novelty is a virtue at all. But, if you accept this idea of music as a kind of magic mirror to the collective consciousness and its mutations and progressions and reversals through time, if you accept the notion that something is happening to us, then the new becomes a clue to this process.

Why people are perturbed at the idea of there being no future left is that it suggests that the process itself has paused. That we have been taken out of time and history and into the simulation in which any change is impossible.
 

luka

Well-known member
There is something funny about someone telling you this music's amazing and then you go no it's not it's shit. That's always a good laugh.

It's like when a little kid has an ice cream and it falls out the cone onto the floor, their face
 

luka

Well-known member
What silver dollars is saying is also true as anyone who has taken drugs or suffers from profound mental illness knows.

There is an outside-of-time, what droid calls deep reality. This is what grapejuice is invoking when he calls for a return to the Palaeolithic
 
the internet has a disruptive effect on temporality in how it gives easy access to everything in recorded history (the weight of the canon, the horror of choice, a glut of voices and perspectives) and also its instantaneous transversal and flattening of timelines, immature things given up to this big thirsty now.
 

Simon silverdollarcircle

Well-known member
This is the mythic frame of this discussion.

I love this element to it (obviously)

But much more prosaically I've thought that really newness in music is just a result of either new drugs or new technology. In the UK we've not really had that for a while so things have paused. In the US they're all on mad prescription opiates and stuff so the music is getting weirder and new things are happening.

This is also makes me think that newness can't really be forced. True genuine scenius newness that is (as opposed to hipsters just mucking around). You just need to wait until a load of teenagers have new stuff to make music on or are on a load of new drugs. Then it'll happen.
 
There’s truth in that but as has been pointed out lots, the technology has never been more accessible (or new drugs for that matter), there’s something about contagion too
 
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