sideways not forwards

thirdform

Well-known member
you're misunderstanding

it doesn't come from nothing

rather it exists only in the context of that which it is post-

so does jungle (or anything) in a which but: not self-consciously. initial jungle producers were organically drawing on a diverse range of influences.

whereas post-scenes are self-consciously defined only in relation to that which they are post-. they do in that sense suffer from a lack of eclecticism.
ok i hear you now. see my post above this though.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
perhaps the confusion is about fruitless eclecticism

the important point is more about lacking the power of a core sound

post-scenes usually arrive at that through pale imitation, other things arrive at it through fruitless eclecticism

the relation is that in some post-scenes part of the dilution of the core sound is through eclecticism

i.e. in post-metal via jazz or idk, what the fuck ever. specific examples will always be a ymmv deal.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
what I can't determine, and perhaps what I should have asked in that other thread, is: what makes eclecticism successful or not?
 

thirdform

Well-known member
perhaps the confusion is about fruitless eclecticism

the important point is more about lacking the power of a core sound

post-scenes usually arrive at that through pale imitation, other things arrive at it through fruitless eclecticism

the relation is that in some post-scenes part of the dilution of the core sound is through eclecticism

i.e. in post-metal via jazz or idk, what the fuck ever. specific examples will always be a ymmv deal.
yeah i mean you wouldn't hear psychedelic rock or post-punk like chrome - Slip It To The Android at these nights. but why not? It might bomb totally but its worth trying. well for me.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
what I can't determine, and perhaps what I should have asked in that other thread, is: what makes eclecticism successful or not?
It's a bit like water isn't it?

Andy Weatherall, great eclecticist.

I saw Finn who is mmentioned in this article mix x-103 jeff mills eruption (one of the best records ever ever ever hands down) into some turn of the millennium hardtrance and it was truly appalling. I felt like someone had ripped the quran. Pure liberal freedom of choice sacrilege. how could you do that? I also heard one of the Swing Ting djs drop Alice DJ Better Off Alone after some fantastic dancehall, again my cue to go out for a spliff.

Cultural filters are still necessary. the punks might have beaten the folkies on the terasses but one must still remain vigilant.
 
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thirdform

Well-known member
I have some friends in this circuit who are playing a lot of old wonky/bleep techno so im not sure how much the descriptor 'club' sticks. Some people have been asking me for experimental jungle recs and having their minds blown. i think it's a case of speaking too soon here. the MCR scene is just a meeting point more than a defined momentum, either forwards or sideways. which is pretty cool with me, like, I think community hubs are a good idea in the 2020s because the mass cultural moment to cohere either a house/techno or nuum scene has past. hardcore eclecticism but not eclecticism for eclecticism's sake, if you know what I mean.
sorry let me clarify. i think post-club is a thing, but i don't think it all revolves around manchester. It has as much to do with London Bristol and Leeds as anything.

there isn't really a scene per se in Manchester and that's what makes it good. but there are *post-club scene nights*
 

Rudewhy

Well-known member
chal ravens has just lumped them together to write an article.
This is the crux of the matter - the artists and DJs mentioned in the article are just the current iteration of the student scene that first appeared with post-dubstep (i.e. Night Slugs), and which primary appeal to the art/design crowd in the university cities that Third has highlighted above. I would imagine that the only difference is the current rotation of DJs are playing a more eclastic variety of music.
 

catalog

Well-known member
I think some of the artists (croww,Aya,Rian treanor and other DoR ppl) are a bit more interesting, to me, than night slugs ever were, already, but time will tell on that.
Otherwise yeah, third on the money I would say.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
id say rian treanor is on his own thing really, more in common with his dad Mark Fell tbh. Aya is good right now but her stuff does seem to be ableton trickery (it's a bit like all that idm in the early 00s on schematic or whatever.) definitely fills that nich for something mind warping but not *obscure/treasured enough that mind warping* if you know what I mean, comfort nerdcore, something you can listen to without worrying you'll overplay it, like you would with an early electroacoustic record which you have to subconsciously ration to get the most magic out of. Fun whilst it lasts but how much longevity will it have?

not sure about the rest. I'm much more on a flashcore tip these days.
 
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catalog

Well-known member
I agree with you that there's no scene as such, but there are nights which have the scene. Trouble is it's so small and there's not enough cashflow
 
You’re a fucking zone of fruitless eclecticism. Nah I think that makes some sense and jungle is a good example as a very fruitful eclecticism. I think it’s partly about the sampling and time-fucking technology being the holding mechanism and prism for all those separate sounds to interact and refract through, so it’s eclecticism *through* a new way of creating, listening, recording... which organically encodes certain stylistic. elements that occur beyond artistic choice, so in early daft stuff you almost hear this playful awe of cant believe I’m hearing and making at once
 

chava

Well-known member
I'm tbh extremely wary, if not skeptical, of "soul" as a barometer of authenticity or quality

and tho all the producers I named could probably be named as auteurs, they all come from scenes in some way

but Tzusing and L.I.E.S., Omar-S and various pieces of Detroit history and now, Tapan self-proclaimed as "part of Belgrade's club life since 1994"

tbf idk exactly where auteur-scenius balance lies in each case, and you could probably argue about the word "scene"

but the point is they're not just isolated geniuses, no one is really

I think organically developed scenes are good, and necessary

the problem with all post-everything/whatever "scenes" is the no there there part

"scene" is a way delineating a certain density of creation with some kind of unifying principle(s)
I agree that we need to cultivate scenes to create, yeah culture. this is possibly what is under threat because of accelerated transmission.

deconstructing soul is a so yesteryear tho, you will waste your time doing it.

those producers with 'soul' are those who never become producers for others, too idiosyncratic. those without become 'professional' producers poached by the pop stars.
 

gremino

Moster Sirphine
I was involved with this in '10s. Alot of tracks are not that good, but the gems are one of the best music of '10s IMO.

Bear with me for doing self-promo, but here's a mix I have made from this stuff. I leaned towards populist and functional tracks - would like to hear your thoughts!

<iframe width="35%" height="300" scrolling="no" frameborder="no" allow="autoplay" src="https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?url=https%3A//api.soundcloud.com/tracks/243110382&color=%23ff5500&auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_user=true&show_reposts=false&show_teaser=true&visual=true"></iframe>
 

entertainment

Well-known member
Guy called Bourriaud talks about the 'altermodern' as the current evolutionary state of art:

"The developed world has extended—and is still in the process of expanding—far beyond the traditional borders of the so-called West. Bourriaud argues that this development has led to a heterochrony of globalized societies with various degrees of modernity and a worldwide archipelago without a center; to globally intersecting temporalities and historically interrelated geographies. Consequently, he justly asserts, our current modernity can no longer be characterized by either the modern discourse of the universal gaze of the white, western male or its postmodern deconstruction along the heterogeneous lines of race, gender, class, and locality. He suggests that, instead, it is exemplified by globalized perception, cultural nomadism, and creolization. The altermodernist (artist) is a homo viator, liberated from (an obsession with) his/her origins, free to travel and explore, perceiving anew the global landscape and the “terra incognita” of history"
 
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