1992

luka

Well-known member
If you go to a lot of those sound-system events they play all this weird genre of music that sounds like dub crossed with '92 hardcore crossed with Ukrainian tekno
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
If you widen your perspective, shit like progressive just siphoned off the chaff, plenty of good House around. Any Castlemorton veterans here?

true, and nearly most of it came from chicago and New York.





and on and on. nothing to do with the castlemorton stuff.
 

WashYourHands

Cat Malogen
Don't quite get your point but agreed, Castlemorton cited as a defining event that year (1992) & the music played there being 2/3rds hardcore, with DiY & a very early incarnation of Smokescreen doling out tunes a lot like the ones you've applied here.

As far as House goes, i'm posting like a mf in the House thread & whatever your position on how it came to be, the mythologies, facts, faces, cities, collectives, labels, nights of encounters with gods et al, it continues still. Just. Maybe. Yes. No. YES. Ok mate stop talking to yourself in public. Ok. Ok
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
my point is that house out of all dance music genres is context specific.

and thats the great irony and contradiction of dance music.

A russian bloke can spin an accomplished dnb mix on a level with any UK jock. same with grime, garage, techno, etc.

But house is so inextricably tied to black America and the informal segregation that still took place in the 80s that it just doesn't hit the same when UK/euro djs spin the stuff, with a few exceptions, 90s Paul Anderson for starters, but not Norman Jay and not any of the UKG jocks, they got great when 2step came along, but a lot of 4x4 house sets from that era are good but not spectacular.

I could never play a house set i would be proud of, I'm no gemini or Ron Hardy. I can play house mixed in with 2step, ambient jungle, euro spacesynth, etc, but that's where it ends really.

Sure, DiY and smokescreen, but they weren't spinning those tunes like DJ Rush and DJ Sneak at +6 with turntable tricks. at least, not from the tapes i have heard.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
you can't talk about house without talking about ghettohouse and thats what everyone in UK does in the house scene, but not in the hard techno scene.
 

WashYourHands

Cat Malogen
my point is that house out of all dance music genres is context specific.

But house is so inextricably tied to black America and the informal segregation that still took place in the 80s that it just doesn't hit the same when UK/euro djs spin the stuff, with a few exceptions, 90s Paul Anderson for starters, but not Norman Jay and not any of the UKG jocks, they got great when 2step came along, but a lot of 4x4 house sets from that era are good but not spectacular.


Sure, DiY and smokescreen, but they weren't spinning those tunes like DJ Rush and DJ Sneak at +6 with turntable tricks. at least, not from the tapes i have heard.

This might be better suited to another thread, but i disagree whole-heartedly. It's like saying you'll only listen to hardcore or mix with it because it has a particular affinity to European authenticity. Likewise, would it work to say house was/is only authentic to gay folks? Of course not either. That House spread the way it did is testimony to the people who made it. It's way into post-context realms, wherever those locations, cultures or individuals may be temporally. It has as many parallels with the hardcore-continuum to the extent we could be here, like herpes, tangenting indefinitely. One last point to make in summary, one of the very few quibbles, is tempo. Weatherall nailed this aspect. If you get up around 130bpm, the groove can fall out of tracks. Great if you want all out jacking, but what if you want to ease your foot off the gas? See what i mean, we just have different tastes m8.
 
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thirdform

pass the sick bucket
This might be better suited to another thread, but i disagree whole-heartedly. It's like saying you'll only listen to hardcore or mix with it because it has a particular affinity to European authenticity. Likewise, would it work to say house was/is only authentic to gay folks? Of course not either. That House spread the way it did is testimony to the people who made it. It's way into post-context realms, wherever those locations, cultures or individuals may be temporally. It has as many parallels with the hardcore-continuum to the extent we could be here, like herpes, tangenting indefinitely. One last point to make in summary, one of the very few quibbles, is tempo. Weatherall nailed this aspect. If you get up around 130bpm, the groove can fall out of tracks. Great if you want all out jacking, but what if you want to ease your foot off the gas? See what i mean, we just have different tastes m8.


that's not what im saying though. I'm saying that in Europe we categorise everything into jacking, ghetto, booty, soulful, vocal, deep etc and draw clear ideologically demarcating lines around these boundaries. I'm speaking in general terms here, so what we get is a very one-sided conception of house. but listen to like poindexter and his tunes owe straight up influences to like industrial and shit. in 80s America that was a radical thing, gay black guys listening to Cabaret Voltaire and stuff. in the UK though especially we tend to think that was just something that came before house or whatever rather than being a central influence on it. Traxx puts it neatly here:

In regards of "Diskomo," though, when I heard Ron Hardy play it, it didn't make sense to me because I wasn't on drugs. But a lot of people that were in the party scene at that time were experimenting with drugs. Ron would spin records faster, because he was under the influence. So the thing is I probably heard "Discomo" at a faster speed. You never knew what Ron was doing at this time, so when you hear "Discomo" and you hear these sort of patterns and tone pads and kind of modular effects like wind and stuff in this manner, it was hard to tell what was what. If you were in that time period, would you think that was Ron Hardy, or would you think that was a record?

It has a really eerie atmosphere...

It's the same thing with Ian Curtis, and what Joy Division did. The producer behind them gave that whole thing atmosphere, that sort of specialness. And that's what "Discomo" did for me when I heard it.

This new wave post punk music is not necessarily something you would associate with early house, which is kind of peculiar, but you seem to be attracted to this kind of music...

This is house music. That's the thing that nobody—and let's make this clear, I am nobody to tell you what is and what isn't the truth—but I can tell you what I know and what I saw. And it was the innovation that Larry and Ron undertook, and it's the innovation that I have personally taken on myself. I am singlehandedly the ambassador of truth right now. I feel like I have singlehandedly taken on the roles of these artists in the way that they described their music and the way that they played their music, and I feel that I'm someone that can say that this music that has somehow been forgotten has a greater significance than people can imagine.

New Order
"Video 5-8-6"
Video 5-8-6, 1982

Well, "Video 586" is an idea that I didn't realize that was important until later, Jamal didn't realize until later, that JTC didn't realize was important later. It's the idea of not following the law of 4/4 music, or the law of what it should be. This is what made music risky, and this is what made New Order risky.

https://www.residentadvisor.net/features/1094
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
One last point to make in summary, one of the very few quibbles, is tempo. Weatherall nailed this aspect. If you get up around 130bpm, the groove can fall out of tracks. Great if you want all out jacking, but what if you want to ease your foot off the gas? See what i mean, we just have different tastes m8.

not sure why you think I'm against slow tempos?

I'm into loads of rare groove, disco etc that doesn't go above 128. stuff like tackhead as well, 90 bpm industrial grade weaponry.

For me its always been about intensity and fucked upness > speed, though of course I love a lot of brain pummelling 200bpm+ experimental french flashcore. but here's the thing I would never say I'm against deep or garage house or dubbier stuff, cos I'm definitively not and like all things am a firm proponent of it being worked into sets. I just think playing slow can be an excuse to play polite and inoffensive music.. I want ecstasy and ascension at all tempos, including 0 bpm drone indian classical vocal performances. but that's the only sense in which I like categorisations. in tracing out lineages and seeing which sounds go with which. weatherall was good for this, as is Hieroglyphic being today. as were djs like Kenny Ken in their prime and ltj bukem pre-jungle era, check out yaman mix 04. goes from deep to strange to ecstatic in the same set. one f my favourite tapes of all time.

listen to our mix, it doesn't even have beats for the first 18 minutes.
 
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WashYourHands

Cat Malogen
Would never have "got into" House without Cabaret Voltaire. Sensoria was a game changer. I'm old enough to remember Dancing Ghosts hitting the world through older siblings. That track blew minds. The relationship with industrial is always more interesting to me than (no offence) an RA article or how Europeans supposedly demarcate genres (and sub-genres). That's as much a hangover from marketing & nothing to do with house as music. Some American producers are more brazen over perceptions that European influences on house mainly being pejorative. Whatchagonnado, steal their kit?

As far as 1992 goes, it was a very good year.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
Would never have "got into" House without Cabaret Voltaire. Sensoria was a game changer. I'm old enough to remember Dancing Ghosts hitting the world through older siblings. That track blew minds. The relationship with industrial is always more interesting to me than (no offence) an RA article or how Europeans supposedly demarcate genres (and sub-genres). That's as much a hangover from marketing & nothing to do with house as music. Some American producers are more brazen over perceptions that European influences on house mainly being pejorative. Whatchagonnado, steal their kit?

As far as 1992 goes, it was a very good year.

I loathe RA more than anyone else but you get the point Traxx is making right? House is much more catholic and open ended than people give it credit for.

I'm not saying euros can't play good house sets or any racial determinist stuff like that, I'm just saying they don't in my experience most times, unless they are sort of left of field.

But then Stacy Pullen has been dull as dishwater and frankly atrocious for a long while whilst being one of the absolute best in the 90s, so you know, it cuts across both ways.

but then also there are probably not more than 12 djs in any genre I want to see. I'm just bored of 8 hours of a 4-4. even with nutty techno I need it to be mixed up with chopped up jungle or electro or raster noton/mego type experimentalism.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
I guess I'm probably not the best person to gob off because my head is a bit of a different place to clubbers these days. my ideal night would play a lot of listening stuff to warm up, but not necessarily the early 90s AI stuff, more hardcore electroacoustic and free jazz, soul, classic dub reggae, etc. then into full jackin techno/electro/jungle/rhythmiic noisey things, then back into post-disco pre-house boogie type stuff, then who knows, maybe some ketamine schlager or turkish existential 80s pop schmaltz.

Needlessly to say I haven't found a night like this and am unlikely to unless I start one up. but that's another headache and a half...
 

WashYourHands

Cat Malogen
Memories of “it’s the Kenny Ken, Kenny Ken” by unknown MC’s. Whatever happened to them btw? Morphed into the hardcore continuum?

The tempo thing was mentioned in an older thread here about 130bpm horrors. Should’ve alluded to it directly.

Do what works for you, end of the day. Drone addict here. Thinking back, it was shit (by shit I mean absolutely atrocious Chris Liberator selections) stumbled into at squats and free parties that cemented that opinion. Just endless 4/4, hammering away at nothing, watered down boink sounds for fuck’s sake, to people too out of it to realise what they were acquiescing with.

Other music it really doesn’t matter, but those abominations, yucky dog shite. If my brother’s free he’d be a much better authority on ‘ardcore from 1992. This is one tape (with a track list) he played constantly

https://www.discogs.com/Micky-Finn-Getting-Thin-With-The-Finn-Vol-1/release/2010824
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
Memories of “it’s the Kenny Ken, Kenny Ken” by unknown MC’s. Whatever happened to them btw? Morphed into the hardcore continuum?

The tempo thing was mentioned in an older thread here about 130bpm horrors. Should’ve alluded to it directly.

Do what works for you, end of the day. Drone addict here. Thinking back, it was shit (by shit I mean absolutely atrocious Chris Liberator selections) stumbled into at squats and free parties that cemented that opinion. Just endless 4/4, hammering away at nothing, watered down boink sounds for fuck’s sake, to people too out of it to realise what they were acquiescing with.

Other music it really doesn’t matter, but those abominations, yucky dog shite.

check my recs in this thread. all accomplished rude hardcore.

and andrew weatherall 1994 160bpm acid barnstormers from the midwest...
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
I refuse to let Third make out that 1992 was all about nosebleeds.

You don't get stabbed in Cardiff clubs after a mindfuck coctail of 2 litres of frosty jacks, 9 gram skunk spliffs and 2 grams of billy whizz. Can't blame you.

Excellent thread this was though.
 
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