The Culture War

[linebaugh]

I cant come up with the words to properly describe living through the current iteration of the culture war. Its just awful. Everything is covered in shit. That feeling you get just after watching less than decent porn diluted into the atmosphere. I think this a big part of the early 20's neo-neoliberal clique, possibly more than general decadence and decline

 

[Leo]

yeah, sucks. it was always there, but I guess more subtle and occasional in the past. now it's over the top, in your face, 24/7, lead by 30 daily tweets by the president.

 

[constant escape]

maybe we didn't watch the same conventions but I saw possibly more bitter polarization than ever before. biden campaign made efforts to reach moderate republican voters by having Kasich and others on, but that traditional GOP voter isn't Trump's GOP base. and the GOP convention demonized the Dems as police-hating socialists who want to abolish the suburbs and destroy freedoms.

I've read that historically, Fox News has had higher ratings when the Dems control the White House and/or Congress compared to when the GOP is in power. Viewers prefer to watch "fight the power" more than "support the administration".

You're right, there was divisive talk, and I expressed my point poorly. I meant that some of the rhetoric against the enemy (from both sides) was that they were dividing the country. Whether or not that is empty rhetoric, I don't know. It does seem like there are people on both sides that genuinely desire reconciliation, and are willing to compromise, if mildly, to attain it. But maybe its wishful thinking on my part.

 

[linebaugh]

It was also so easy to navigate. Jon Stewart vs. Fox News, very quaint

 

[Leo]

I think there are people who would love to see reconciliation and compromise, including me. but the loudest voices, particularly during conventions when the objective is to fire up supporters, are the ones calling for battle against the existential threat of losing.

 

[linebaugh]

That sounds alright in theory but is there any american republican position worth reconciling/compromising with? What idea do they present of any worth? I wouldn't mind an appeal towards republican values, in the abstract, but as a collection of policy objectives its a death cult.

 

[version]

That sounds alright in theory but is there any american republican position worth reconciling/compromising with? What idea do they present of any worth? I wouldn't mind an appeal towards republican values, in the abstract, but as a collection of policy objectives its a death cult.

How do you compromise on something like abortion anyway? If someone believes it's morally wrong there's no acceptable outcome other than a total ban.

 

[version]

Likewise climate change. Where's the compromise when one side refuses to accept it's even real?

 

[Leo]

those are obviously black or white issues, so sure. but there's plenty of legislation that could be debated and passed through compromise, with each side getting some of what they want and scaling back on other demands in order to get the law passed: health coverage, social security benefits, infrastructure spending, foreign policy.

it's far from perfect, resulting legislation would be watered down from what each side ideally wanted. but on some issues, getting 50-75% of what you want is better than getting 0%. think of Obamacare: it should have had a public mandate and greater statewide competition to provide better plans and value, but in the end it did allow 10s of millions of people with pre-existing conditions to get coverage.

today's all-or-nothing polarization causes gridlock, standstill, and it helps no one.

 

[version]

today's all-or-nothing polarization causes gridlock, standstill, and it helps no one.

That's what Republicans want though. They want gridlock. They want government to fail and people to lose faith in it.

 

[luka]

Likewise climate change. Where's the compromise when one side refuses to accept it's even real?

"We propose to decimate the environment to the point where human life becomes impossible."

"Well how about we meet you halfway?"

 

[version]

Compromise only works when everyone involved has aims beyond fucking everything up and hurting their opponents and that's essentially the entire Republican platform.

 

[version]

I'm posting this on @Corpsey ' s behalf.

 

[vimothy]

but one of the args is about how knowledge is produced- the other side doesnt agree that these things are occurring

 

[Leo]

@version we're talking about different things. I never claimed the current Trump MAGA GOP were open to compromise. what I was doing is pointing out areas where compromise is possible between rational lawmakers on each side. we don't have a lot of those folks around right now.

 

[version]

but one of the args is about how knowledge is produced- the other side doesnt agree that these things are occurring

Is that because of the things themselves or because of who's telling them they're occurring?

 

[version]

@version we're talking about different things. I never claimed the current Trump MAGA GOP were open to compromise. what I was doing is pointing out areas where compromise is possible between rational lawmakers on each side. we don't have a lot of those folks around right now.

Yeah, I don't think they exist in the GOP anymore. If there were any they've been ostracised. I'm sure there are plenty who would tow the party line and follow a rational leader if they felt it was in their interest, but there's no room for rationalism in their platform. It falls apart when it comes into contact with it.

 

[vimothy]

as far as compromising is concerned it doesnt matter

 

[Leo]

as far as compromising is concerned it doesnt matter

can you explain what this means?

 

[luka]

can you explain what this means?

Vim never explains. He just makes a gnomic utterance and disappears in a puff of pink smoke