Max/MSP

[version]

Has this stuff been used to its full potential? Mark Fell's said he made the switch because it freed him from the linear timeline imposed by stuff like Logic and Ableton and Autechre have been doing what they do with it for decades, but there's surely plenty more you can do besides sounding like Mark Fell and Autechre.

Is anyone doing anything particularly interesting with it - or Pure Data, Reaktor, Bidule or any of the others - atm?

 

[version]

You take stuff like the two vids above and they're cool, but they don't sound unique to the software. You can achieve similar results by other means. It begs the question: if this stuff's more or less limitless, why can't we do anything new with it?

 

[linebaugh]

I think new music tech has always done little more than redirect work flow, and what was perceived as new was the circumstance of the time. As much as acid house was new, it was also the 303 and the roland drum machines redirecting creative energy already out there in psychedelic (particularly krautrock), dance and punk.

we may have already run the gauntlet on electronic sounds, so the effect of max/msp will be less stark than the changes brought about by past tech. But I imagine this stuff will bring about a change in focus, what returns. From the little I know about max/msp and pure data, seems like live performance/improv could be most affected, as devices like the organelle (pure data) offer alot of power while remaining intensely playable

 

[linebaugh]

Re: the devices, this stuff is significantly cheaper too

Probably 1000 dollars worth of gear in this video, not too different from your average guitar/amp combo

Similar thing going on here, but for what I imagine to be in the range of multiple thousands of dollars

I know all this could be done for free on a laptop, but I think there's something to be said for the return of accessibility to a live performance more tactile and visually interesting that this stuff offers.

(sorry Ive talked past the original intention of the thread)

 

[version]

I think new music tech has always done little more than redirect work flow, and what was perceived as new was the circumstance of the time. As much as acid house was new, it was also the 303 and the roland drum machines redirecting creative energy already out there in psychedelic (particularly krautrock), dance and punk.

There's stuff you can do with electronic gear you physically can't with traditional instruments though.

 

[version]

 

[version]

we may have already run the gauntlet on electronic sounds, so the effect of max/msp will be less stark than the changes brought about by past tech. But I imagine this stuff will bring about a change in focus, what returns. From the little I know about max/msp and pure data, seems like live performance/improv could be most affected, as devices like the organelle (pure data) offer alot of power while remaining intensely playable

I know all this could be done for free on a laptop, but I think there's something to be said for the return of accessibility to a live performance more tactile and visually interesting that this stuff offers.

Perhaps I'm focusing on the technology too much. I can't help feeling this is dovetailing with some of the stuff discussed in the conceptual art thread and some of the threads on modernism. That there's too much emphasis on tricks and gimmicks and pyrotechnics.

 

[pattycakes_]

I've often wondered the same. Max for Live was supposed to be revolutionary. You can get right under the hood of the of Ableton and have your devices fully integrated as if they were part of the base code. Some cool stuff has come of it, but to be totally honest, nothing that really broke through to new territory. Check out the most downloaded devices by the drop down near the top left

www.maxforlive.com - Download Max for Live Devices

The Free Library of Max for Live Devices

maxforlive.com

There's some cool and fun stuff in there for sure. Using your webcam as a modulation source for eg. Weird sequencers. But I don't see it living up to its potential, considering its supposed to be nigh on infinite. As linebaugh put so succinctly, it seems as though we've ran the gauntlet. How much further than Aphex and Autechre can it really be taken? Listening to Coil or some crazy Boogie from the 80s is more exciting to my ears now because of the musical approach to the tech. You can hear the time and dedication to sculpt the pieces. After that, if progress is what drives you, IDM is the logical conclusion. But it's a dead end. End of history type stuff innit

 

[version]

How deep have you gone into Max For Live?

Not super deep, I mainly use the built-in stuff. I used to use Max/MSP as a student, but I feel like everything I need to do, there's already commercial software that's…

I think a lot of people have a Max/MSP phase while studying, but then you realise, "Why am I spending ages trying to make it do stuff that Logic's experts spent years designing?"

You have to have a really specific reason. Maybe you're doing an art installation and that needs a certain type of mechanic. But when it comes to just making electronic music it's not super necessary.

Machine Love: M.E.S.H. · Feature ⟋ RA

Using a simple software setup and samples he sources online, James Whipple creates a sound that's both familiar and deeply strange. Angus Finlayson pays his studio a visit.

www.residentadvisor.net

 

[pattycakes_]

There's algorhythmic music. Generative stuff. Nothing new ofc, but there's a big push to evolve it to lifelike. I used to be dead against it, but now feel it's actually going to be fun to see if it can pull of something undiscernable in a blind test. So far the results aren't even in the uncanny valley. But imagine if you could put in some parameters like Jaki Liebezeit drums, Prince guitars, Juan Atkins arpeggios, Bernie Worrell basslines and Aphex pads, you set the group mind parameter to a strong dose LSD and set the colour purple as a mood guide.

 

[version]

There's some cool and fun stuff in there for sure. Using your webcam as a modulation source for eg. Weird sequencers. But I don't see it living up to its potential, considering its supposed to be nigh on infinite. As linebaugh put so succinctly, it seems as though we've ran the gauntlet. How much further than Aphex and Autechre can it really be taken? Listening to Coil or some crazy Boogie from the 80s is more exciting to my ears now because of the musical approach to the tech. You can hear the time and dedication to sculpt the pieces. After that, if progress is what drives you, IDM is the logical conclusion. But it's a dead end. End of history type stuff innit.

Yeah, the appeal seems to become the process rather than the output. The music becomes notable because it was made a certain way and not because it's particularly good or sounds any different.

 

[version]

There are extremes you can go to like having breakbeats going a gazillion miles per hour, but does anyone actually want to listen to that? Does it make for good music?

 

[pattycakes_]

@thirdform enter stage left

 

[version]

The other thing with Max is the learning curve.

 

[pattycakes_]

Yeah, the appeal seems to become the process rather than the output. The music becomes notable because it was made a certain way and not because it's particularly good or sounds any different.

The makers are a huge demographic now. You see production specifics in music reviews all the time. But the revolutionary ideas, like that guy in the RA link you posted says, seem to have already been thunk up. There are little things happening here and there, like AI based mixing stuff (gullfoss, oeksound soothe etc) which all make sounding pro much much easier, and of course, the audio grail of 1:1 recreations of legendary studio gear, which is coming along but still has a long way to go. It's amazing how even a cheap piece of hardware with the right constellation of resistors in it can be like a spoonful of honey for the ears because of the harmonics it generates in tandem with whatever you put through it. But to do the same thing accurately in software takes more cpu than most modern machines have to give. Because it's such a chaotic thing, energy particles smashing their way around a circuit in a beautiful way.

But there are exceptions:

Airwindows | handsewn bespoke digital audio

www.airwindows.com

Most of this guys stuff is free, and really fkn good. Loving his tape and console emulations. Low cpu hit too.

 

[version]

But the revolutionary ideas, like that guy in the RA link you posted says, seem to have already been thunk up.

One of the things I like about that piece is he mostly uses software, so they're forced to just take photos of his book collection and the inside of his PC.

😂

 

[version]

It's amazing how even a cheap piece of hardware with the right constellation of resistors in it can be like a spoonful of honey for the ears because of the harmonics it generates in tandem with whatever you put through it. But to do the same thing accurately in software takes more cpu than most modern machines have to give. Because it's such a chaotic thing, energy particles smashing their way around a circuit in a beautiful way.

I remember reading some of AFX's posts on some old synth forum and him saying a bunch of the old gear goes out of tune as it heats up.

 

[pattycakes_]

Yeah, and not just the old. Even analog synths being released now need to be on for a good 15min before you tune them

 

[version]

The other thing with Max is the learning curve.

I think one way forward is increasing accessibility and reducing the friction in getting ideas down, the polar opposite of fiddling about in Max for Live.

 

[pattycakes_]

Yeah, and not just the old. Even analog synths being released now need to be on for a good 15min before you tune them

Manufacturing's much more tightly controlled now though. Which often means sterile sounding gear. Its the drift and imperfections of the old stuff that gives it that extra bit of life. Makes it compelling. Once again we're at dematerialization. Lack of texture & friction. Some modern synths even have a 'slop' parameter to put some wiggle back into the signal.

This is a huge ongoing discussion on pretty much every production forum.