luka

Well-known member
does the party matter? im not using left and right as synonyms for democrat and republican.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
do you gently interrogate them in a sympathetic and gentle way
I don't go out of my way, but I am in general willing to talk to anyone, anywhere, anytime about pretty much anything

it's good to counteract the creation of your own echo chamber
 
The point in making is obviously quite straightforward. Can someone point me to someone who has expanded on it please
 

luka

Well-known member
The point in making is obviously quite straightforward. Can someone point me to someone who has expanded on it please

the point I'm making should that say? i can understand it but i can't understand it as the basis for huge sweeping realignments. barty is fond of saying vim's politics have a huge sexual and fetishitic element
 
the driving forces behind our political inclinations are basic and crass (the need to belong, the need to be right, to feel superior and high status, disgust) and ideas around how the world should be organised follow much much later. We all play this down a little
 

luka

Well-known member
yeah yeah yeah but i want to know specifically about this sea-change! and that doesn't explain it!
 
yes and i share your curiosity, but the point that im making is that this shift functions because ! not in spite of this lack of emotional openness. operates on the exploitation of needs that arent explicitly acknowledged
 

suspended

Well-known member
Given that the working class supports the American "right" I don't think it's crazy to see the left/right distinction as a bit mixed up right now. You gotta lot of axes: stances on economics, identity politics, authoritarian vs democratic politics. And they don't all go naturally together; the adhesion is partially constructed by historical circumstance
 

boxedjoy

Well-known member
I feel like the older I get, the more I shift to the left - the harder it gets to exist easily in the world, the more I want to ensure other people don't have to endure things I've had to endure
 

version

Well-known member
I feel like the older I get, the more I shift to the left - the harder it gets to exist easily in the world, the more I want to ensure other people don't have to endure things I've had to endure
And the right wing position is the total reverse. "I've had a shit time, so why should anyone else have a good one?". I remember seeing a Republican interviewed about healthcare and that's almost exactly what they said. They said they'd been completely screwed over healthcare, so why should anyone else get to avoid the same?
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
the driving forces behind our political inclinations are basic and crass
I think you're overrating that quite a bit, and/or downplaying the importance of ideas

or, you can't separate out those base inclinations from ideas about how the world should be organized

neither ideas nor base inclinations happen in a vacuum, they exist in a feedback loop
 

poetix

we murder to dissect
I started out in a position of general contempt for and impatience with The Left, being a nihilistic gen-x-er and also an intellectual snob, so no Great Disillusionment has ever been on the cards for me. I now hold the general view that The Left are often weak, hypocritical and religiously conformist people who are nevertheless broadly right about the things that really matter - unlike The Right who, barring a few genuine intellectual big-hitters with complex motivations, are all of those things but also horrible bigots. In short, for me it's not Wrong But Romantic vs Right But Repulsive, it's Right And Repulsive vs Wrong And Repulsive.
 
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