IdleRich

IdleRich
One of the worst for that kind of thing is the film Clue, when the gay character solves the mystery and in the process of exposition reveals himself to be some kind of undercover agent, his final flourish "Now I'm going home... to my wife and kids!" - don't worry viewers, the hero isn't a deviant after all! Even when I was at primary school I remember thinking, is this ok?

I notice now they commonly invert this to show the innate decency of a character. If you have a period drama set in a time when homosexuality was illegal and hated/feared by the mainstream they will often show the hero rising above this and admonishing those who succumb to the prejudices of the time. Nice idea I guess but seems a bit artificial.

I used to go out with a girl who insisted that her sense of right and wrong was entirely free from context, she intuitively understood that a person cannot own another and so even if she had been a wealthy person in Ancient Rome or whatever she would have hated slavery, not owned slaves... in fact she would have probably campaigned to end it. And the same was true of all other prejudices we think we have now dispensed with... whatever era she had been born into she would never have thought newly discovered tribes or other races were inferior, she would have never countenanced homophobia and so on. I wish that I could be so sure of my moral rectitude and strength of character, it must be great to believe so strongly in yourself.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
Mentat in sequels my guess
SPOILERS

w/o going into a full deep dive, Idaho returns as a ghola (basically, a clone) in Messiah and then over the further course of the series many, many Idaho gholas eventually culminate in a final incarnation who is both a Mentat (yes) and a kind of Kwisatz Haderach, and probably the most important character of the last 2 books, which get pretty wild. Far future Duncan is dead serious, deep, melancholic and 100% not a bro. I'd kinda like to see Momoa try for it tbh.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
In the books I'd describe Paul + his mom's relationship as complicated and troublingly close but without sexual overtones. I thought the insertion (heyo) of Oedipal sexual tension in the film was kinda interesting albeit v 21st C, post-Lannister twins. There is book tension between Jessica + Chani but it's more like competing visions of what Paul should be than sexual competition.
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
One of the worst for that kind of thing is the film Clue, when the gay character solves the mystery and in the process of exposition reveals himself to be some kind of undercover agent, his final flourish "Now I'm going home... to my wife and kids!" - don't worry viewers, the hero isn't a deviant after all! Even when I was at primary school I remember thinking, is this ok?
Ha, that's terrible - when was the film from?
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
It's funny, though - your ex's fanatically ahistorical view of the world. I think it led to some argu... vigorous debates between her and Anna on a few occasions.
 

luka

Well-known member
Seems a strange thing to randomly chuck into the mix of a film with countless other themes and subtexts already in there. Especially if it's not gonna be taken further and have any particular significance.... maybe it will.
this is standard now. chuck in a few lines that could conceivably indicate the men are actuly a bit gay and everyone is doing incest and that. its something thats happened to storytelling isnt it, they're not themes at all, theyre just sort of chucked in there without rhyme or reason and not necessarily developed or supported by the rest of the story
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
I actually like the idea that not everything has to mean something - if someone coughs loudly early doors you can't necessarily assume they've TB, if someone loss fifty quid betting on football in episode two it doesn't necessarily mean that by episode ten Russian mobsters will be dangling them upside down from a twentieth floor balcony having already taken their house and sawn off seven toes - in short the maxim about the gun on the wall needing to be fired feels old-fashioned and heavy-handed to me.

But maybe there is a happy medium, what you are describing is the pendulum swinging back way too far the other way and the director covering every single wall with an arsenal of weaponry. Instead of writing a genuinely surprising story just bury the reader under an avalanche of cliches so they can't know which will emerge. I suppose it's a useful way out for the hack author but no substitute for genuine artistry.
 
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