Eno

[luka]

There is a language of sound which must be respected and understood or you turn everything to mush

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

no, those are also subjective

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

keys, time signatures, etc are not subjective

the "how" in general - how something was created, the instruments and/or software, techniques, etc - is not subjective

your individual feelings and your indivual way of describing something is the definition of subjective

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

your associations are your own associations informed by your own specific context

 

[luka]

your associations are your own associations informed by your own specific context

This is a position I don't respect.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

This is a position I don't respect

it doesn't matter if you respect it or not, it's true

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

you and another person can obviously have some degree of shared associations

but there's no such thing as a non-subjective association

 

[luka]

That's a position that can only be supported by the rankest solipsism.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

you have it exactly backward

your position is the one that can only be supported by the rankest solipsism

"I have the ability to discern some universal thing from this art"

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

which you don't

no one does

 

[luka]

if you are committed to a shared universe and communication between equals then this is unsupportable

 

[luka]

Language is predicated on this. The fact of communication, of any of us being able to speak and be understood.

 

[luka]

we work on the basis, philosophically justifiable or not, of green being green. This is how we operate.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

can someone post a specific example of tangerine dream etc that's especially similar to something on that eno album?

basically all of Zeit besides the first track with it's strong Penderecki-ish harsh melody

you only want one, but you could also include stretches of Atem, and of Affenstunde by Popol Vuh

I don't say it's an exact one-to-one, merely that these things clearly exist in a similar space at the minimal end of 70s analog electronics

 

[luka]

Green is green and grass is grass and geese are geese, honking. We operate on the basis of a shared universe. Values are different of course. What is good or bad, what we are attracted by or repelled by, is personal

 

[luka]

if we are to talk, amongst ourselves, here or anywhere else, we must assume common ground. But this is kids stuff.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

green being green

you're not saying "green is green"

that would be saying "this music has a slow tempo", that would be non-subjective, given a shared understanding of what tempo is

you're saying "I can discern this music's atmospherics and psychic landscape"

 

[linebaugh]

You can set specific associations aside and recognize that On Land is going for a feeling ('feeling' in the abstract) that is distinct from say Popul Vuh or Tangerine Dream. How you define that feeling, how it registers with you, is subjective but I think recognizing the differing aims of the project is a non-subjective observation, or at least approaching it. This is ambient music, really it all sounds the same.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

of course we assume some level of common ground

I didn't say otherwise

you're saying that shared emotional associations can be assumed in the same way "what is green" can, which they obviously cannot

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

How you define that feeling, how it registers with you, is subjective but I think recognizing the differing aims of the project is a non-subjective observation, or at least approaching it.

I agree with that in terms of artist intent, to the degree it can be known (including by the artist themself)

I don't agree with it in terms of how something sounds, or how a painting looks, or etc

that you or luka or I can listen to something and from that alone discern its aims in a non-subjective way