wake up lads its time to talk about sin

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
I'm into it. Many is the time I've pulled my pants up after a four hour cocaine fuelled porn wankathon and caught a glimpse at the bestial evil of misdirected lust.

Sin you might say is the actions of the unencumbered ego. Which is why indulging in it places us in isolation from the world/others/God.

Very into it. I'm going to get a hairshirt off Amazon.
I had this concept for a thread called Jack's Wank of the Day.
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
You'd just touch base with us every day to talk us through one of the wanks you'd had. How long it took, how satisfying the climax, what visual stimulus you relied on, what technique you used. That kind of stuff.
 
It's interesting to posit total transparency, some sort of shameless / shameful singularity where we know everything about each other. I think if russia published everyones internet histories as psychological warfare it might actually shift us to a higher plane
 

sufi

lala
we've arrived at a funny place now where we're all potentially answerable to the online public for whatever info can be exposed or doxxed
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Staff member
we've arrived at a funny place now where we're all potentially answerable to the online public for whatever info can be exposed or doxxed
The way to avoid this is to be so insignificant that nobody would ever go to the bother of doing it.

It's worked a treat for me so far.
 

Leo

Well-known member
confession is great though, getting it out. its why therapy works. the catholic version is perverted obviously but even still it does a lot for people
there are probably people who consider it a "get out of jail free" card: live the life of a shit for six days and they wipe the sin slate clean on Sunday with a few minutes in the confessional and some prayers, bish bosh.
 

martin

----
there are probably people who consider it a "get out of jail free" card: live the life of a shit for six days and they wipe the sin slate clean on Sunday with a few minutes in the confessional and some prayers, bish bosh.
You're right but I was taught you can't do this as it falls under the sin of presumption? Technically, you can live a life of complete sin - go around stealing, killing, raping, supporting rangers, etc - but, if you repent on your deathbed, the slate's wiped clean. Except if you did all that bad stuff thinking "I'll just confess on my deathbed later", you still go to Hell because you 'presumed' God's mercy.
 

WashYourHands

Well-known member
If what I say that follows is considered below the belt, then so be it.

therapists like to pretend they're doing lots of really important empathetic stuff based on brain science but theyre just secular priests
There’s no pretence. Psychology determines your cognitions. Working with negative, self sabotaging behaviours supports growth. You can never truly empathise with a client, only partially. Everyone’s life maps are different in nuanced ways. Humanity is quite a broad spectrum, as is the broad spectrum of evidence and therapies to get that client into a place where they’re more balanced and have adapted life skills to negate future problems. They learn to create their own ballast and flow states. They learn what ego states “feel” like and establish recognition of how these thought patterns can be countered. My own bias is I don’t work with mildly neurotic clients, but highly traumatised ones.

The Christian form of confession was pre-scientific. Of course it can negate “bad behaviour”, but it descended into corruption through the faith’s denial of responsibility and its own abuses, of which there are tens of thousands of victims.

Working with traumatised clients is more akin to a form of secular shamanism. That might sound a bit New Thinking Allowed/Jeffrey Mishlove, but I see it every working day.

The attempts to cast it as a science are risible
I really don’t know how to dignify this logic with a response other than to counter it with something like Ezra Pound wasn’t an artist. Except of course he was.

Why are these “attempts“ risible? What is unscientific? Can you distinguish between mild neurosis and childhood sexual abuse? If so, you may be reaching the threshold where the body of wisdom that has developed over many decades to treat and support these experiences can then be applied accordingly.

If you understand shame, or if you understand the concept of shame, if you understand abuse and how corrosive it is to the human being’s well-being, then the therapeutic practices relevant to healing shouldn’t be much of a leap of logic to enter this discourse with a more open mind. They work.

If you’d like, if the world ever adjusts to a Covid infused world I can arrange a day pass to one of our main conferences in London. All you have to do is attend and listen. You’ll get a lunch and bunch of convivial professionals to chat with. If you go away from that with the same opinion that you stated above, well, at least we tried.

Prove me wrong. The Talker talks, the Prover proves.
 

WashYourHands

Well-known member
I’ll give you an anonymous client profile.

Female, 38years old. Place in care aged 3 after vaginal tearing discovered by GP. Abused further in care, emotionally, physically and sexually for the next ten years. At 12/13 she’s introduced to heroin by an older female. That older female then begins to farm her out to johns as a child prostitute in order to skim the smack supply. She’s raped numerous times, slashed, beaten, kept hostage, but somehow escapes. She gets a social worker and is put in specialist foster care, but can’t kick the smack. She starts street walking dressed as much younger child. She contracts HIV and Hepatitis because johns pay more for unprotected sex, but doesn’t know it yet. She starts combination drug abuse, with crack, alcohol, methadone and benzos. What little schooling she receives is mostly at street level. At some point she takes an overdose to end it, but survives.

On the orthopaedic ward a wise old RGN notices she’s fond of the morphine. The RGN talks with her when she’s lucid and her life history (her life map) spills out. This is when we usually get a call. We offer her secure, in-patient detox combining physiotherapy, which she completes. She‘s then offered a course of eye movement desensitisation and reprocessing therapy for unprocessed traumas via the NHS. This continues for 2 years, with a single relapse, but she pushes through. At the start of her therapy her “core stats” for distress, anxiety an emotional well-being rate at 5/5 (the highest possible) for each question. At the conclusion her core stats are down to 0/5. She’s fully discharged but retains a community psychiatric nurse who begins her assimilation out into the world again.

She goes to further ed college, gets a pt job and gets a flat. She ends up working as a community psychiatric nurse herself, her HIV is now in relatively good shape and her T-cell count remains strong. She meets a man who proves he can be trusted and she blossoms further.

For every case like this, there are hundreds more undocumented and untreated. The science of recovery is extensive, unfortunately it doesn’t get to anywhere near the number of people it should. This is Britain today, every day.
 
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WashYourHands

Well-known member
To counter the doom, pre-Christian Britain an Ireland used a system of taboos called (in Gaelic) Geasa:

A Geas
Geas, pronounced "Gesh", is a magical obligation, prohibition, or a taboo that a person possesses. This "Geas" can be considered as both a blessing and a trial at once. To some a Geas may be beneficial, allowing them to discover a part of his or herself that was previously dormant, while to others, a Geas is a trial that they must uphold in order to remain victorious. A Geas can also serve as a punishment. For instance, a Geas can be placed on a person for their disrespectful actions. In these cases he or she must uphold the Geas in order to learn a lesson.

Each Geas is individual and specific to the person it is placed upon. However, once a person has been granted a Geas it is their moral obligation to uphold the Geas for the remainder of their days. Many keep their Geas a secret because if a Geas was discovered by an enemy it could be used against them, which in turn can create an imbalance with nature and with magic. Such imbalances can result in dire consequences that range from catastrophic events to death.

It is possible for a person to have several Geas (Geasas) placed upon them during their lifetime, some of which may act against each other. In example, if a person has a Geas that says they must partake of the food served at every friend's home, and another Geas which states that they are prohibited from eating a certain type of food (which just happens to be the food being served at their friend's home), then there is no way for a person to remain true to each obligation. The Geasas then act against each other and a dire consequence will occur regardless of what the person does.

Typically Geas were only placed upon Sacred kings, Druids, and Heroes. Sacred kings were meant to uphold the obligations to their land without overstepping their bounds. Often a Druid would place a Geas upon the king to insure this did not occur. Druids also placed Geasas upon each other and upon criminals who disrespected the balance of nature, and in some instances a Geas could be placed upon a child by his or her parent at birth.

In summation, a Geas can be thought of as an "Achilles’ heel" to some, and a reward beyond measure to those who's Geas allows them to reach out and help other people. Some consider a Geas to be a curse, I would like to point out that even when placed on a criminal its purpose is to ensure the criminal learns something and hopefully becomes a better person for it. Between Druids it is often regarded as a blessing which reminds them of their more sacred duties to the path, community, and one another. Whichever the case, a Geas is not to be taken lightly and is not to be used against another to serve their greater purpose.
 

Leo

Well-known member
You're right but I was taught you can't do this as it falls under the sin of presumption? Technically, you can live a life of complete sin - go around stealing, killing, raping, supporting rangers, etc - but, if you repent on your deathbed, the slate's wiped clean. Except if you did all that bad stuff thinking "I'll just confess on my deathbed later", you still go to Hell because you 'presumed' God's mercy.
I'm sure you're right, i never studied it all very closely.
 
If what I say that follows is considered below the belt, then so be it.

Working with traumatised clients is more akin to a form of secular shamanism.
not at all, really great post thank you, a thoughtful response (made me feel guilty!) to my drunk belligerence imagining you and Danny L getting wound up.
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
No, it's not a science. It's laughable to call it one. But there is no shame in it not being a science. It's a great deal better for it.
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
Secular shamanism is not science either. There's no need to be defensive about this. I don't believe science so it's not an insult to say it's not a science.
 

WashYourHands

Well-known member
The fact that these programs work, independent of your opinion, is enough for me.

The froth of your answer is risible enough. The insult is projecting a defence mechanism onto our profession by someone standing up for it. At least have the balls to explain yourself fully. Oh yeah, but science and of course that whole issue with evidence etc.

I’ve seen hundreds of humans transformed by the science of therapeutic interventions. The data doesn’t lie, quantitatively and qualitatively. Access is the main problem and a lack of funding. Are there cunts working in the therapeutic community? Here and there. But are we all confused as to the methods of theory and practice? That would take one hell of a conspiracy a la @mixed_biscuits mode.
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Staff member
The fact that these programs work, independent of your opinion, is enough for me.

The froth of your answer is risible enough. The insult is projecting a defence mechanism onto our profession by someone standing up for it. At least have the balls to explain yourself fully. Oh yeah, but science and of course that whole issue with evidence etc.

I’ve seen hundreds of humans transformed by the science of therapeutic interventions. The data doesn’t lie, quantitatively and qualitatively. Access is the main problem and a lack of funding. Are there cunts working in the therapeutic community? Here and there. But are we all confused as to the methods of theory and practice? That would take one hell of a conspiracy a la @mixed_biscuits mode.
I don't know if you've figured this out about luka yet, but all you have to do is sidle up to him and whisper "science" very quietly in his ear and he automatically goes into full kung fu mode, fists and legs flying everywhere, face twisted into a snarl, spitting with fury, "Where? Where?! I'll fuckin' ave you, Science, ya cunt!!!"
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
I'm not saying it doesn't work. I'm violently opposed to disciplines like therapy having to PROVE they work by qualitive measures tick box list. I think it does work.
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
You think I'm anti therapy when in fact I'm anti quantity. Time for a fag.
 
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