Crockett's Theme vs Chariots of Fire

Hammer vs Vangelis

  • Crockett's Theme

    Votes: 6 66.7%
  • Chariots of Fire

    Votes: 3 33.3%

  • Total voters
    9

DLaurent

Well-known member
Not sure how Dissensian the poll is, but two searing anthems of 20th century electronic music, like them or not.

For me it would have to be Crockett's Theme because it's much cooler.


Well?
 

william_kent

Well-known member
I didn't want to mention this in the "Vangelis is dead" thread, but...

April this year saw the death of Stavros Logarides. Who? In 1974 he wrote a tune, "City of Violets", which was used as the theme tune to a Greek TV show, "Menexedenia Politea" ("Violet City"). He was also sharing a house with Vangelis at this time, and they had collaborated in a band together. Allegedly Logarides played Vangelis a demo tape containing the tune...

Here's the theme to the TV show:


Stavros Logaridis (Σταυρος Λογαριδης) - Menexedenia Politeia 1974 (Μενεξεδενια Πολιτεια 1974)

and here is a later version recorded in 1985 that appeared on a 1997 KPM album entitled "Alchemy"


Stavros Logarides - City of Violets

Millions of Greeks have heard the theme tune, and after Chariots of Fire came out, some noticed a similarity between the two...

which lead Logarides attempting to sue Vangelis for stealing the tune resulting in a court case where Vangelis set up his synthesisers in the courtroom, and his expensive lawyers demolished Logarides' claims, resulting in the two never speaking again, Logarides owing Vangelis millions in damages, becoming a recluse and developing "problems with addiction", and dying a month before Vangelis, unable to dance on his nemesis' grave...
 
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IdleRich

IdleRich
Which lead Logarides attempting to sue Vangelis for stealing the tune resulting in a court case where Vangelis set up his synthesisers in the courtroom, and his expensive lawyers demolished Logarides' claims, resulting in the two never speaking again, Logarides owing Vangelis millions in damages, becoming a recluse and developing "problems with addiction", and dying a month before Vangelis, unable to dance on his nemesis' grave...

I'd love to hear the arguments that the lawyers made that were able to convince judge and/or jury that there was no similarity between the tunes - and that in fact it was so ludicrous of the plaintiff to claim that there was, that his action in bringing the case had to be seen as a malicious attempt to extort the legitimate profits an innocent man had earned from his original work of art - not to mention as a huge waste of the court's time. It seems that the lawyers were able to further persuade the judge that the only moral and legal course of action open to him was to apply punitive damages against the plaintiff at such a massive level that it would dissuade anyone from even thinking of trying this scam again. They must have reasoned that although hitting a penniless artist with such a large fine would mean that he would never be able to pay it back and thus it would, sadly, completely destroy his life, that was a necessary evil that could be borne to rid the world of such spurious cases.

and dying a month before Vangelis

Seems like he copied him there for the second time, er, I mean for the first time of course. To any lawyers reading this, let me be clear that no-one with ears could think that the Vangelis tune was in any way influenced by the other version of it that his flatmate did before his version and which he definitely played to him.
 

william_kent

Well-known member
it seems I am an unreliable narrator, I really should have done my research before posting my potentially libellous contribution to this thread - the damages awarded to Vangelis were only £200,000

it appears that the Judge thought any similarity between the two tunes was a "coincidence" as although it was "not unlikely, that Vangelis had heard the The City of Violets [...] it was impossible to conclude that he had either consciously or unconsciously copied it"

1655100583473.png

from The Glasgow Herald, 19/02/1987

so there you have it, definitely different tunes
 
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padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
Obv Chariots of Fire is v not peak Vangelis

and I don't know any Vangelis LPs besides Blade Runner (and the Aphrodite's Child double) well enough to describe them

still taking Chariots of Fire

Gotta dispute that Crockett's Theme is "cool", for one

granted that cool is subjective, but speed boats and Armani? it's a fantasy for yuppies (and an extremely limited view of Miami, btw)

Chariots of Fire to be sure is deeply, deeply uncool - a bunch of extremely earnest, 1920s English running nerds

but that earnestness is what gives it its power - give me people actually trying to yunno accomplish something any day over Don Johnson's stubble

this is all equally reflected in the music, is my point
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
also btw, To Live and Die In L.A. is a much superior version of Miami Vice

and tho the Wang Chung soundtrack is tbh pretty meh, I'd take "Dance Hall Days" over either of these two by a country mile
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
also btw, To Live and Die In L.A. is a much superior version of Miami Vice
nb: you do have to skip/ignore the first ~5 minutes and their hamfisted, embarrassing even for 1985 depiction of an Arab terrorist stereotype

they are literally only there to set up a Lethal Weapon style "I'm getting too old for this shit" and have nothing to do with rest of movie

which is Friedkin basically doing Mann but Thief Mann, dressed up in the pastels of Miami Vice, plus a very healthy dose of his own French Connection

what really puts it over the top is Willem Dafoe doing his thing and weirding it up as the gecko-faced, art collecting, kind of existential ennui villain

kind of amazing Willem Dafoe has made a 40 year career of taking HW movies and making them weird in interesting ways
 

version

Warehouse Operative
also btw, To Live and Die In L.A. is a much superior version of Miami Vice

and tho the Wang Chung soundtrack is tbh pretty meh, I'd take "Dance Hall Days" over either of these two by a country mile

I rewatched it recently and got really into the soundtrack, ended up listening to it on and off for weeks. That title sequence with the big, orange sun coming up . . .

 

version

Warehouse Operative
If Craner were here, he'd post Payback instead of Crockett's Theme.



This is another good Jan Hammer thing.

 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
I rewatched it recently and got really into the soundtrack, ended up listening to it on and off for weeks. That title sequence with the big, orange sun coming up . . .

I don't dislike it, I just think it works better in the context of the movie than for solo listening. like most soundtracks probably.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
yeah if I was going to pick one Jan Hammer tune it would definitely be this

granted I'm not intimately familiar w/his back catalog but what a banger

and one of those tunes that's crying out for an extended edit, ran across this a few years ago via the mighty Contain Yr Brain and much enjoyed
 

version

Warehouse Operative
I don't dislike it, I just think it works better in the context of the movie than for solo listening. like most soundtracks probably.

You ever seen the alternate ending? I didn't know it existed until relatively recently. It's so cheesy. The two cops get sent to Alaska and it ends with them tucked up in a cabin together, smiling to themselves, watching a news report on the case.

 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
You ever seen the alternate ending? I didn't know it existed until relatively recently. It's so cheesy. The two cops get sent to Alaska and it ends with them tucked up in a cabin together, smiling to themselves, watching a news report on the case.

holy shit wuuuuuut. that is incredible.

that has to go in the pantheon of impossibly stupid and terrible studio executive demands

lmao @ "I survive, miraculously, a shotgun at point-blank range to the face" (with I guess, no disfigurement of any kind)
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
also lmao @Friedkin "would Psycho have made more $ if Janet Leigh was just wounded in the cellar?"

trying to imagine being him, trying to explain how stupid that idea is to the $ people

makes me want to see the alternate universe where every one of these terrible studio happy endings was implemented

Apocalypse Now, but Sheen and fat Brando in an Alaskan cabin watching a news report about Vietnam and smiling

Romeo and Juliet, but Romeo and Juliet in an Alaskan cabin watching a news report about fair Verona and smiling
 

DLaurent

Well-known member
As a reluctant Radio 2 listener there's certainly plenty of music that could get called yuppie music, but hearing the last few days Jeremy Vine giving Julee Cruise an obituary, I'd hate for that to be classed as yuppie as a result. Willem Dafoe is great though, my favourite being Light Sleeper.
 
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