bob mould and frank black- coincidence, or something more sinister?

S

simon silverdollar

Guest
just a little thought, i don't really expect anyone to reply to this:
bob mould and frank black- both fronted great, exciting bands that kept guitar music going through some tough times. then both went on to do solo stuff that boring, and boring in very similar ways.
and they even look kind of similar- stocky guys with not much hair.

what's going on, eh?
 

dHarry

Well-known member
you could add Paul McCartney to that list, and expand it specially for David Grohl/Foo Fighters (where's that Hate thread...), even Iggy solo never reclaimed the glory, complexity, desperate problematising of himself in the Stooges.

I'm not sure about the stocky/short hair theory (!), but there is surely a case to be made for the magic and electricity that can happen within a band context - the Pixies were more than Francis - his bark/howl contrasted with Kim's sweet voice, rock steady bass, phenomenal guitar and drumming, amazing dynamics, maybe the youthfulness that encourages such expression before "maturity" and common sense set in (see Frank Black's recent Nashville Soul album)... without whatever it was about the band situation that egged each other on he just doesn't have any more (Kim had it for the early Breeders).

How about expanding the category also to include artist's within genres/scenes e.g. Photek going from that amazing, sparse, tense (if non-danceable) drum and bass to fairly pointless house music.
 

jenks

thread death
yeah that first sugar album was excellent - hoover dam in particular still works well, especially while driving the car, also remember teh first frank black album having a great track about going out and buying a white noise maker and turning it up to ten - but apart from that blokes who went off the boil way too quickly considering obvious talent - yeah i'll go for that.
foo fighters - and the point of them is?
 

tate

Brown Sugar
Of course there are similarities between the two (e.g., those mentioned above), they even interviewed each other after embarking on their solo careers, circa mid-90s I guess, at the behest of . . . can't really remember . . . Spin? Alternative Press? on the basis of the similarity, and I remember Mould saying that one major difference between their music was that he, Mould, had actually learned to play the guitar proficiently. Would really rather not think about that period/genre of music though.
 
Last edited:
S

simon silverdollar

Guest
Tate said:
Would really rather not think about that period/genre of music though.

why not? it was alright, wasn't it? being born in 1982 i'm always kind of jealous of those people who lived through the husker du + pixies years.

interesting stuff about black + mould acknowledging their similarities. trying to think who'd be the equivalent now...but am stumped.
 

tate

Brown Sugar
Naaah, you're right, there was some amazing music being made during that period.

I guess I was reacting to that moment when the freshness of bands like Husker Du and the Pixies turned into the more watered down versions of themselves (though Mould's pre-Sugar solo album Workbook still seems listenable, if I remember correctly) -- to say nothing of the envy that *I* have for the fact that while certain great guitar and drum outfits of the day were doing their thing stateside, my agemates in the UK were witnessing the emergence of jungle and 'ardkore, something in retrospect I would have much much much preferred to have seen and heard.

But sure, for those of us who were there, so to speak, at the time, the Pixies and others (Sonic Youth, Dinosaur Jr., My Bloody Valentine, Jawbox, the usual crowd) were indeed a revelation to see live in the late 80s/early 90s, and felt genuinely 'new,' to a certain degree (keeping in mind that we got UK and Detroit punk, as well as NYC glam and no wave/post-punk, second and third hand, not live but from records and cassettes).

From today's perspective, however, considering the other things that were happening simultaneously (hip-hop, detroit techno, house, etc), of which I am much more fond, it is sometimes difficult to think back to that moment in guitar-based music without wincing.

For what it's worth, there were bands from approximately that period (a bit later, actually) who seemed to revolve on a magical Louisville-Chicago-DC-San Diego-axis whose music stands up to the test of time much better IMHO, say, than the godawful cliched-guitar-diddling of J Mascis. I am thinking of Slint, Big Black, Jesus Lizard, Rodan, Drive Like Jehu, aMiniature, Jawbox, Shudder to Think, Boys' Life, Crown Hate Ruin, Mickey Finn (the band not the producer), Truman's Water, and any number of other Dischord or Touch & Go bands whose music seemed to be based *not* on indie hipster baloney or ego or proto-emo moaning but on very simple principles: the way the drummer kept time, non-cliched guitar dissonance, and the occasional vocal melody.
 
Last edited:

Ness Rowlah

Norwegian Wood
I think there are things on "Workbook" which are good, and also the title track
from "Black Sheets of Rain" is good (both by Mould). And is there not some "proto-grime"
on his experimental electronic album (or maybe it wasn't proto, but around the same time
as the first bouts of dubstep?)

Never really had a relationship
with the Pixies though, I know you were/are "supposed" to and all - but I just couldn't/can't
see what the fuzz was about. I'll try and listen again to my better half's Pixies again then ...

I guess you can add John Doe (ex-X) to that list, his music seems to be getting worse
and worse. And that guy in The Smashing Pumpkins has lost it as well has he not?

(Not to mention Brett Anderson who has lost his suave big-city voice,
nothing to do with this thread (but I thought I mention it anyway) -
but with the velvet gone from Brett's voice,
The Tears just sounds like any other band).
 
Last edited:

Rambler

Awanturnik
Sugar completely ruined the Pixies for me - I really did the whole Frank Black/Bob Mould confusion thing like Simon's talking about, and since I didn't see the point in Sugar, I didn't bother with any Pixies records until very recently. And after Nirvana and a lengthy Sonic Youth obsession, the Pixies still seem kind of weak listening to them now. Guess I just completely missed that one. :confused:
 

zoilus

Member
Tate said:
Of course there are similarities between the two (e.g., those mentioned above), quite apart from their sexual orientation (which I take Buick6's snide remark to be an allusion to)...

Whaa? First, which part of Buick6's remark had anything to do with sexual orientation? ("pinko" = commie, not pink-triangle)

Second, Frank Black's a husband and father. Bob Mould is (relatively) openly gay. So their orientations aren't even similar.
 
S

simon silverdollar

Guest
i read somewhere that bob mould had a bit of a rave epiphany and started putting out Ibiza-house style tracks. is that true? i hope so much that it is...
 

soupstain

Member
The second Frank Black album (<I>Teenager of the Year</I>, the one with the ‘white noise maker’ song mentioned above) is ace. It’s hard to describe what’s so good about it - especially as it sounds a bit like Tom Petty and features a couple of cod-reggae tunes – but I think part of it is the fact that he’s trying to “go pop” (comparatively speaking) with such enthusiasm. He’s angling for a hit without sounding forced or cynical.

I’ll concede that he upped the boredom content quite substantially on subsequent albums though.
 

stelfox

Beast of Burden
zoilus said:
Whaa? First, which part of Buick6's remark had anything to do with sexual orientation? ("pinko" = commie, not pink-triangle)

Second, Frank Black's a husband and father. Bob Mould is (relatively) openly gay. So their orientations aren't even similar.

thanks carl - i'm a pretty big fan of both mould and black and was about to say that i had always thought that black was a (conventional!) family man.
 
Top