questions you are dying to ask but are too scared to b/c of music nerd cred?

FairiesWearBoots

Well-known member
in general, a dub normally means an instrumental version of a track (without vocals)

but its also short-hand for dubplate, in that case a one off pressing of a track (vocals or not)

remix is just a different version/take on the track, most of the time done by another artist but sometimes by the original artist (also known as a V.I.P)
 

dd528

Well-known member
crunk cups? why?

I think the cup thing comes from the fashion in hip hop culture for drinking sizzurp (codeine-based cough syrup mixed with soda or fruit juice) in the southern US. That kind of drowsy, sedated headfeel you get from that kind of medication enhances the sonic effect of chop and screw rap music.

The crunk cup as a kind of bejewelled goblet is just the natural result of the cross between drinking sizzurp out of polystyrene cups and the fetishisation of pimp culture and ostentatious, conspicuous consumption in certain parts of the hip hop scene.
 

skull kid

Well-known member
it's an og pimp thing, recently bought to the mainstream by lil jon. nothing to do with screw or houston or cough syrup
 

paolo

Mechanical phantoms
in general, a dub normally means an instrumental version of a track (without vocals)

but its also short-hand for dubplate, in that case a one off pressing of a track (vocals or not)

remix is just a different version/take on the track, most of the time done by another artist but sometimes by the original artist (also known as a V.I.P)

But surely a dub and a remix are just different terms for taking a piece of music and changing it around? Is it only a dub if you strip the original back, turn the bass up and add some echo? Could have been a bit clearer with my original question there

Incidentally, this was prompted by getting the Scientist Launches Dubstep compilation and seeing that the Scientist versions were labelled as dubs, which got me wondering as I don't think I've seen a dub of a dubstep tune before (if you know what I mean). Also the King Midas Sound version of 'Deadman' by Shackleton is called the 'Death Dub Remix' :confused:
 

john eden

male pale and stale
Dub means a whole bunch of different things.

In reggae it refers to all that phasing, echo drum and bass business.

In garage it's more likely just a boring mix tool stripped down version with no vocals in. *imho loike*

The Scientist vs Dubstep album you refer to is referring to the former - with tracks actually being mucked about with and mutated, rather than simply having things removed from them.

I suppose a remix is when something is done to a track, but a dub is a specific type of remix.
 

MatthewH

makes strange noises.
It's not just garage, in most kinds of dance music a dub just means a version with no, or less, vocal.

Of course some producers will make a "dub" that just takes a small snippet of the vocal and loops it for the entire track. So technically there's more vocal in the dub than the vocal mix.
 

Robman

joy division oven gloves
Can anyone id a dnb tune that's stuck in my head? It uses the "lucifer" from "lucifer son of the morning" bit of Max Romeo 'Chase the Devil'. It might be breakage or summat on bassbin
 

zhao

there are no accidents
i might stop caring 3 minutes after posting this but

what is the origin and definition of the "handbag house"?

i always thought it was tacky low-energy vocal house the kind chicks half dance to while holding their bags. but someone said something about a now defunct club in London with a giant handbag on the dancefloor.
 

Littlefoot

Well-known member
WTF does emo mean?

Hello!

That WIKI article misses the point vastly to include a lot of muso journo nonesense.

This is my music, when you break it all down, this was my first love.

Emo is a subgenre of punk, more specifically hardcore punk, and originates from Washington DC. A lot of things that are described as Emo are not Emo, much like a lot of genres of music, although the term has been dragged through the shit really badly, although these days more and more people ACTUALLY know what Emo means.

In the mid 1980s, Hardcore Punk had kinda become a joke of itself, lots of very macho bands, very comic strip kinda bands, and lots of guys playing really bad metal. Emo is considered to be the main reaction to that (pre- American Indie Rock/Lofi, which is also very much born from the ashes of Hardcore Punk).

The first wave of Emo is very Hardcore Punk oriented, but slower and with more chord changes, and quite openly blunt lyrics, often about self loathing/regret/social political issues of the time. A lot of proper Emo bands are politically motivated, the imagery used in classic Emo bands varies between political and personal in a very free form way, in a way this is a big part of it's popularity and it's downfall.

Emo was very popular in the mid 90s, and musically a lot more diverse than in the 1980s, popular indie rock/math rock bands, most predominantly Slint, had a big impact on the sound, allowing for essentially "non hardcore sounding hardcore bands".

Although the music differs from the 80s HC sound, a lot of the early 90s hardcore sounds have crossed over with Emo, much as small musical sounds SHARE a scene, so to speak, there was a big slowed down chuggy metal thing going on with Straight Edge style bands at the time (See Unbroken) and this crossed over with Emo bands such as Still Life.

In the mid 1990s (considered to be the glory years of the genres) there was a lot of different sounds about, you could hear super fast scratchy spazzed out stuff like Mohinder, Antioch Arrow and other bands from San Diego, as well as the super dynamic slow "LOUD soft LOUD soft" stuff such as Indian Summer, Don Martin 3, Moonraker etc. All the same style, much like when Skreamizm 1 and Burial's s/t came out, no one argued that they wern't both Dubstep!

In the late 1990s it all kinda falls apart a bit, a lot of the slow bands go super super slow and broken (best record of this era being the I Hate Myself / Twelve Hour Turn split LP) and the introduction of the Screamo sound, which is essentially a very OTT and quite poppy version of the 1990s emo sound, although some of the early Screamo stuff is fucking great and really really raw, see early Orchid or Jeromes Dream.

Screamo kinda took over in the early 2000s, and although there were still "real" emo bands around, like Yaphet Kotto, and then later (and still going) Sinaloa, the sound has kinda tapered off a lot.

THIS SAID, there are two Emo sounds around at the moment, the revival (copying) of the more upbeat Mid West style emo ala Cap'n Jazz, Promise Ring et al, albeit it IMHO a lot of these bands really miss the point. And a very small but gaining speed mixture of more rocking American post punk ala Mission of Burma/Minutemen and 80s and 90s Emo, the best examples of this would be the bands Tubers (ex Twelve Hour Turn) and perhaps Sinaloa, who have a Gang of 4/Wire type vibe to them. Massive pat on my own back here, but my band What Price, Wonderland? have also been accused of being one of the more "postpunkmo" bands, I dunno, but I do love both styles A LOT!

NEXT POST WILL BE VIDEOS WITH AUDIO FOR YALL!:cool::cool::cool:
 

Littlefoot

Well-known member
The original Emo band..I have the lyrics of this song tattooed on my chest, that's how l33t (cliche) I am when it comes to this shit..


and their sister band, featuring Ian Mackaye of Minor Threat and Fugazi on vocals


and then in the late 90s from the same kinda area, showing the more dynamic approach for the first time, there arn't many bands I like as much as..


And then the sped up more intense screamy style from the mid 1990s


And the continuation of the really stripped down LOUD quiet stuff, note the Slint influence


This is the kinda stuff which is really popular again at the moment, the happy clappy stuff, I call this Kiddymo!

[video]http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=capn+jazz&aq=f[/video]

And now onto the infamous Screamo sound, sounds like the other stuff, but put through a washing machine


Good example of modern post punk influenced emo, note the spoken not shouted lyrics, a good reaction to the ott screamo vocals

 

thenationalacrobat

eat white death...
i love so muich of that stuff too littlefoot. big on honeywell, heroin, shotmaker, angel hair, joshua fit for battle, orchid, saetia etc etc... great music :)
 

connect_icut

Well-known member
Never looked at this thread before, so forgive me if any of these questions have come up before but I just posted these on another forum and thought it might be worth cross-posting them here:

1. Was Mark Hollis from Talk Talk ever a heroin addict? In my elderly copy of The Rough Guide to Rock, it says he totally was but in Rob Young's book Electric Eden, it says that he most certainly wasn't.

2. I just bought a vinyl copy of One World by John Martyn because I was enjoying the MP3s I had so much. Weirdly, the MP3s - and as far as I can tell all existing CD versions of the album - have the songs in a different order. Basically, side B of the vinyl comes first on the CD version. Why is this?

3. What is modal music? How does it differ from conventional harmony? Is it the same thing as chromatic music? If not, what's that then?
 

hint

party record with a siren
1. Was Mark Hollis from Talk Talk ever a heroin addict? In my elderly copy of The Rough Guide to Rock, it says he totally was but in Rob Young's book Electric Eden, it says that he most certainly wasn't.

In "I Believe In You" he sings "I've seen heroin for myself". But I recall reading something that suggested perhaps a relative had been an addict rather than Mark Hollis himself.
 

connect_icut

Well-known member
In "I Believe In You" he sings "I've seen heroin for myself". But I recall reading something that suggested perhaps a relative had been an addict rather than Mark Hollis himself.

I believe his older brother died of a heroin overdose. People I've asked about his own supposed addiction haven't been able to turn much up but that old Rough Guide talks about it pretty confidently. According to that, he "successfully quit heroin" in 1987.
 

Slothrop

Tight but Polite
3. What is modal music? How does it differ from conventional harmony? Is it the same thing as chromatic music? If not, what's that then?
Very potted explanation until someone who knows music theory better than me comes along:
There are various ways of picking a musically interesting set of eight notes from the twelve that make up an octave. A mode is one of a number of common ways of doing this. Playing with notes from a specific mode often creates an atmosphere that depends on the mode.

Pre Kind Of Blue, jazz worked by having a (normally fairly fast-changing) chord progression that derives from the melody of the head section, and the musicians playing a bunch of notes that fit well with the chords as they come along. This ties the improvisation fairly tightly to the chord progression and limits the number of notes that would sound 'natural' at any given point.

In modal improvisation, the apparent chord progression is very simple, with few changes and a long time on any given chord, and the musicians choose notes more freely based on the modes (ie scales) that are implied by the tune rather than the chords. IOW they have one large set of notes (or at least, main notes) to work with for a long time, rather than a changing series of small sets.

Chromatic music is different - it's music that involves a lot of notes from outside the key signature that is being used. By and large, heavily chromatic compositions will have a nominal key at any given time (unlike atonal compositions) but they're used fluidly and change a lot. Wagner was the big driver of chromaticism in western classical music, and I think it was the excesses of chromaticism that drove the second Viennese school to decide that if you were going to play that fast and loose with key signatures you might as well ditch them entirely, hence atonalism / pantonalism / serialism. Webern and Schoenberg both did early stuff that pretty much picked up, on a smaller scale, where Wagner left off...
 

Slothrop

Tight but Polite
My turn: does calling a tune a 'rinser' or a 'rinseout' actually mean anything about what the tune sounds like, apart from the fact that it's liable to get rinsed by DJs? Like if you talk about 'rinsers and rollers' or 'an amen rinseout'?
 

michael

Bring out the vacuum
Very potted explanation until someone who knows music theory better than me comes along:
There are various ways of picking a musically interesting set of eight notes from the twelve that make up an octave. A mode is one of a number of common ways of doing this. Playing with notes from a specific mode often creates an atmosphere that depends on the mode.
Slothrop has really said the main points, but knowing connect_icut makes music I might add a little bit about what modes typically are... Think of making a piece of music by playing the white keys on a keyboard, but focused around E and an E minor chord. You're not using the minor scale, you're playing the white keys. It's still quite traditional and harmonically easy on the ears, but it is a different mood. It would be a bit weird to say the track is in C major (or A minor), so instead people say it's in the Dorian mode.

While chromatic music is about going beyond the usual 8-note scales, these Greek modes are just exploring the ways you can play with exactly that 8 note scale. So it's very much still traditional diatonic harmony, with 3 possible major chords and 3 possible minor chords and one dimished to work with. Heaps of pop music is modal in this sense. But I suspect if someone bothers to comment it is in the context of something like jazz, as per Slothrop's description, where there was a shift in techniques and attitudes to improvisation.
 
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