questions you are dying to ask but are too scared to b/c of music nerd cred?

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droid

Guest
Logan Sama said:
Is having a disgust for the intimate physical acts homosexuals carry out considered a hate crime?

im assuming that your disgust doesnt extend to the intimate acts of female homosexuals?

Logan Sama said:
I have a problem with gay sex on medical grounds.

Im having difficulty resisting the temptation to crack a joke at this! ;)

What is it that you so strongly disapprove of?
 

3underscore

Well-known member
Logan Sama said:
I have a problem with gay sex on medical grounds

Best paid you just change that to a problem with sodomy, and you are suddenly avoiding any problem with the idea of homophobia, and more agreeing with a huge amount of historical opinion.
 

h-crimm

Well-known member
Logan Sama said:
No, it would be irrational, as they are probably no different to what the person does in their own relationship.

gay sex isnt all that different to straight sex, its the same parts that get involved.



I have a problem with gay sex on medical grounds.

banning gentiles marrying jews was for 'medical' reasons, south african doctors and southern US doctors have had problems with mixed race marraiges on some imagined medical grounds in the past. i think that was the justification for it being illegal.
are you a medic? :p


And your comment about how it has no bearing on myself as I am not directly involved in it would negate every sexual law ever written in the history of mankind surely?

yep,

except bestiality, paedophillia, rape, abuse and necrophilia, cos these are without consent.
appart from protecting the weak, stopping abuse, i really dont think the state has any right to decide anything about this stuff. history is the past, we're moving forward never backwards!

bassnation said:
also, a lot of gay people find straight sex to be digusting (i hesitate to use that word because it feels so loaded, but its probably the right one), so it cuts both ways.

i dont really know how true that is.... i used to pretend kissing couples made me feel sick but it was just to piss people off when i was an obnoxious teen. i think saying it disgusts you is just a way for queers to turn some of the hate back against the opressors, make them feel dirty or wrong for a change. a weak joke that doesnt do anything for understanding.
nowadays i just find the idea of people i know having straight sex funny, cos of how historically, sexistly and culturally cliche loaded it is... if you see what i mean.
 
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bassnation

the abyss
h-crimm said:
i dont really know how true that is.... i used to pretend kissing couples made me feel sick but it was just to piss people off when i was an obnoxious teen. i think saying it disgusts you is just a way for queers to turn some of the hate back against the opressors, make them feel dirty or wrong for a change. a weak joke that doesnt do anything for understanding.

i've lost count of the number of times i've heard people say "womens bodies, errgh, digusting" but yeah, always in a jokey way.
 

sufi

lala
westwood dynasty?

Originally Posted by sufi
Is Tim Westwood Vivienne Westwood's son???
gabriel said:
yes. he's actually only 5' 4" but he wears massive heels
for real?
dunno if she's gone down in my estimation or he's gone up...??? :confused:

sorry to butt in to this interesting idscussion btw ;)
 

DJL

i'm joking
I think resentment towards homosexuals will always be there as long as we take the piss out of fat people or anyone with anything different. Irvine Welsh in his book 'Porno' summed it up for me by saying "its just who you fancy". I find talk of "being born gay" and suchlike difficult to accept sometimes. As long as no one gets hurt emotionally or physically then let them get on with it. There's more shit in the world to worry about than whether homosexuality is right or wrong imo.

Perhaps homosexuality suffers more amongst young people today because of its huge growth in terms of mainstream media coverage. When I was at school in the mid nineties it was hardly talked of or on display by those whom were it. Things have changed dramatically since then helped on no doubt by the free and easy accesibility of pornography on the internet (10 years ago if someone had porn it was like gold dust - the opposite is true now). Political correctness though has to be the main culprit imo and has unbalanced things so that, for example, the Big Brother production team would be on the verge of suicide if they couldn't find the essential homosexual or non-white person they must have on to not be litigated against or shut down.

Some people don't like homosexuality shoved in their face in the same way it can be off-putting if say a flat mate and his new girlfriend are constantly making out on the sofa opposite you when you are trying to watch TV in that f-ing room! We've had homo-overkill recently imo.

With regard to homophobia in music such as dancehall or any other music - its bollocks brought about by long out of date tradition or hatefullness and should be dismissed as such.
 

minikomi

pu1.pu2.wav.noi
I find the anti-goind-down-on-'nanny stuff pretty off putting sometimes... so i guess i can't imagine how bad it must be for someone to be told by music that they dig that they should be killed.
 

DJL

i'm joking
minikomi said:
I find the anti-goind-down-on-'nanny stuff pretty off putting sometimes...

I find that weird. If you don't like going down on a girl fair enough but don't go around taking the piss out of people who do. Then again I think it is mainly schoolkids on rwd forum who go on about the 'Bow Cats' thing.
 

h-crimm

Well-known member
DJL said:
Perhaps homosexuality suffers more amongst young people today because of its huge growth in terms of mainstream media coverage.

if media coverage is to blame its because of the type of coverage. queers on teevee are not much past the black-and-white-minstrel stage. i can't think of alot of gay 'personalities' in mainstream media that i've been encouraged to sympathise with, who have been portrayed as anything other than strange, incomprehensible, vain, capricious, childish and idiotic.
no-one i could imagine wanting to be, or being friends with.

gays on tv have to reinforce hi-jacked camp. gay men always have to show a bunch of supposedly feminine negative attributes and (like women) are therefore useless. its not a deliberate conspiracy but its what we're expecting from the token gay, in the single track world of tv if the definition is going to be subverted the subversion usually has to be the point of the show, the gag.

big brother has to incude one queer cos they (gays) are something everyone likes to gawp at, a relatively newly voided taboo. we can all group round and point and (quietly) laugh at them, the flamer, like the loud mouthed girl, the dim model, the conservative. isnt that what big bother is about? anyway gay people are well known to be loud entertaining insecure neurotic freaks. perfect BB material. so its not about quota filling.
in a random sample the chance of picking at least one queer to be in the ten or twelve or whatever would be relatively high anyway. gay characters are certainly are not over represented on tv with respect to the ratio of gay and straight people in the audience.



[/QUOTE]Some people don't like homosexuality shoved in their face in the same way it can be off-putting if say a flat mate and his new girlfriend are constantly making out on the sofa opposite you when you are trying to watch TV in that f-ing room! We've had homo-overkill recently imo.[/QUOTE]

the kissing gay couple isnt just offensive on your sofa its offensive all over. if its "rammed down.. throats"
the lounge is a grey public/private space so its awkward. straight couples can kiss in the anonymity of a public space or in privacy but in a shared in-between space its wierd.
if youre queer the whole world is an alien controlled space, public space is owned by someone else, youre never going to come correct.
the public world is packed full of images of normality as purely heterosexual, homosexuality as pain and loneliness or weakness, hetero-erotic and soft porn imagey, sexist imagery and happy marraige and children myths. everywhere. 24-7.
there's very little gay space, if you go to compton street you have to listen to shit music, if you go to clapham common you surrender the protection of the police or you get arrested.
i used to make sick faces or shout at straight people being normally intimate because i wanted to turn round the idea that this was 'thier world' and i was always outside. that they had a right to feel comfortable doing things that i had to be careful not to ram-down-throats.

the ram-down-throats thing is meaningless really, a polite way of saying dont do it anywhere near me. something you dont have to feel homophobic saying, but basically equivalent to "i dont mind asians as long as i dont have to see them anywhere ever and dont have to deal with anything they might introduce into society, the media, culture, consumtion or my family"


personally i think younger people are more tollerant of homosexuality because it has become something which has a normal (if often somewhat circus-like) place in the world -through-television.

using gay as a synonym for bad is a confused one for me. i know plenty of people who just use it in thier vocabulary without it having even a subliminal connection to the other meanings, just like i dont usually even think of the other (gay=joyous) meaning. though clearly just like gay(2) came from gay(1), gay(3) came from gay(2).



hmmm sorry to go on... not really music related anymore
 
D

droid

Guest
h-crimm said:
hmmm sorry to go on... not really music related anymore

Not at all. This thread's been well and truely hijacked at this stage anyway... :eek:

Whats your opinion of dancehall btw? Are you a fan?
 

mms

sometimes
Logan Sama said:
Yes, I have a problem with oral sex as well.

And sodomy certainly doesn't involve the same body parts......

so,
are all these problems based on medical grounds?
 

sufi

lala
mms said:
Logan Sama said:
Yes, I have a problem with oral sex as well.

And sodomy certainly doesn't involve the same body parts
......so,
are all these problems based on medical grounds?
it's cruel to mock the afflicted :(
poor logan ;)
 
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DJL

i'm joking
I agree with all of what you say h-crimm.

I think the "ramming down throats" thing comes from my generation having seen influence and coverage go from nothing to where it is today and it now seeming like whenever I turn on a mainstream media device such as radio or television its there regularly when before it wasn't. Combined with the jarring qualities of many media gays this has produced this idea of homo-overkill perhaps. I'm going to ask the 18yr olds at my uni what they think of the coverage.

I think using 'gay' to say something is bad extends from childish machismo and cowardly desire to fit-in. To say something is bad by using the word 'gay' re-inforces the more acceptable image of heterosexuality and manliness amongst school-age peers or right-wingers. Other uses of the word tend to be to describe something that is wet or weak which I think stems from current media portrayl more than homophobia having read your post.
 

h-crimm

Well-known member
droid said:
Whats your opinion of dancehall btw? Are you a fan?

i like dancehall, yeah, i plan to get into it more, but at the moment i'm just a beginner (been a beginer for a few years actually :eek: )
i'm coming to it via grime... possibly an usual route

i think i find stuff about aggressive sexism and stereotyped gender in dancehall more upsetting than "batty boydem fi die", cos it seems that kind of attitiude can more easily slip into the everyday life of listeners, where as you'd probably have to go out and make a real effort to find someone queer to abuse.
i'd feel different if it was the predominant media in my local area.

but i also think that in britain people to an extent use dancehall to talk about thier own homophobia. i mean black music or culture is a traditional 'other' for the british mainstream, so one might talk about the traditionalism of male roles in (an imaginary version of) a black culture so we dont have to note that the 'solid' alternative music of the student market; maximo park /franz ferdinand /the stroke /the libertines/ whatever arctic monkeys for the last five years or more includes no women artists.
'normal' brits can object to the content of dancehall, thereby doing their bit for the good fight but not having to examine their own attitude or give anything up.

on a grime note, i thought skepta was boring when he only had two sets of lyrics, and his biggest rewind came from imitating flirta D... before i noticed he was always on chatting bout mans balls and batty
 

tryptych

waiting for a time
DJL said:
I think using 'gay' to say something is bad extends from childish machismo and cowardly desire to fit-in. To say something is bad by using the word 'gay' re-inforces the more acceptable image of heterosexuality and manliness amongst school-age peers or right-wingers. Other uses of the word tend to be to describe something that is wet or weak which I think stems from current media portrayl more than homophobia having read your post.


it's a funny one, this business of using "gay" in a derogatory way. I know a few gay men who have used it in that way, flippantly, and I certianly find it less uncomfortable than negative racial terms. Why is that? Maybe because the way a lot of people use it (at least among people I know) refers to a lack of machismo, being more "feminine", and even being nerdy or over-intellectual. All of which I recgonise in myself and don't regard as negative features of one's personality.

Yes

It is unsanitory


Is this for real?
 

sufi

lala
Logan Sama said:
It is unsanitory
:D :D did you ever smoke or drink alcohol, logan, or drive a car, praps?
=far riskier behaviour in terms of health than, say, rimming or other 'unsanitory' sexual practises

sorry if i sound glib or pisstaking i find your attitude on this curiously backward
what is yr view of heterosexual promiscuity?
 
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