N
nomadologist
Guest
I can't help but feel you don't understand how huge a reality crack dealing is in the U.S.
Hip-Hop - breaking news, gossip, slander, lies etc
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I can't help but feel you don't understand how huge a reality crack dealing is in the U.S.
N
nomadologist
Guest
The Hives still exist?? wow
mistersloane
heavy heavy monster sound
Tim been keepin them in a cupboard feedin them dawg food til this came out. 'You mine now, Swedish bitches!'
what has that got to do with anything? i dont care about how big a reality it is in the US. in this instance, im caring about how its treated in hip hop. i cant help but you cant listen to hip hop about dealing and come to any sort of conclusion beyond 'this is reflecting reality'. like all rappers can do is REFLECT reality. what, they dont have some sort of opinion on it beyond simply 'documenting' reality?
N
nomadologist
Guest
To an American, the documenting of this reality is sufficient to relay all the ironies and ambivalences and horrors of it. All of the negativity is properly dredged up by the very performance itself, without any need for explicit moralizing. It's even more powerful that nothing more needs to be said to indicate that we've made precious little progress against the sort of oppression that still plagues black inner city youth. (Of course, you *can* moralize explicitly, but who's to say this is always the most favorable method for reaching people with the message that these things are still problematic?)
N
nomadologist
Guest
Anyway, I've talked about this enough before, I don't want to clog up the hip-hop thread with it again.
how about if i wrote a song like this:
[Chorus]
Get ya rape on, get ya rape on [4X]
We take the girl and then we rape her, yeah we rape her
Take the girl and then we rape her, rape her!
We take the girl and then we rape her, yeah we rape her
Take the girl and then we rape her, rape her!
if anyone objects to it or says thats not a cool thing to be talking about or more than that, they simply dont like my celebratory tone in a song about rape, i will just tell them i am reflecting the reality of rapists.
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N
nomadologist
Guest
Putting cocaine in a pan and cooking it into crack is NOTHING like raping a person. That's what you call an invidious comparison.
N
nomadologist
Guest
getting your "hustle on" need not mean selling crack. if you're that literal minded, maybe you *shouldn't* listen to Jeezy...
What about violent video games? Are they promoting violence? Do you play video games that are violent?
What about violent video games? Are they promoting violence? Do you play video games that are violent?
maybe you should make love to jeezy.
of course i know geting your hustle on does not have to mean selling crack but in juvenilles songs he explicitly said thats precisely what he meant.
i cant be bothered with this discussion now. i think weve debated the merits of crack rap enough.
N
nomadologist
Guest
fine by me
i talk about kool herc as the root of hiphop and you think i'm talking about hip-hop recordings, boy you really show you know nothing about hiphop beginnings. could you tell me please which great "hiphop recordings" kool herc made?
N
nomadologist
Guest
never said he did. i'm saying "hip-hop" is not just songs, it's not just recordings, it's not just one figurehead, hip-hop culture began as a confluence of influences
i said Kool Herc (who had no songs, no recordings) was the beginning of hiphop, this was your response
i cant read this any other way than you thinking that kool herc made records which i unjustly suppose are the beginning of hiphop.
its fine with me when you want to discuss on an unfriendly tone, and want to belittle me, but when you're obviously wrong, be a man and acknowledge it.
N
nomadologist
Guest
How does that mean I was saying Kool Herc has recordings? He was a DJ (and I suppose mostly credited as an emcee for his contribution to helping hip-hop form). DJs spin other peoples' music. Ok. So what? There were other elements of hip-hop culture that emerged before Kool Herc was spinning, or before the first "hip-hop" tracks were recorded. I was not responding directly to your assertion, I was responding to your entire idea that the culture can't precede the objet d'art
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N
nomadologist
Guest
Wikipedia on hip-hop:
History
Main article: History of hip hop music
The main historical eras of hip hop are the old school hip hop era (1970 to 1985), which spanned from the beginning of hip hop until its emergence into the mainstream, and the golden age hip hop era (1985 to 1993), which consolidated the sounds of the East Coast and the West Coast and transitioned into the modern era with the rise of gangsta rap and G-funk, created by the West Coast. The years after 1993 contain the hardcore hip hop, bling, and underground genres, which largely define the modern era.
Hip hop arose during the 1970s at block parties in New York City, at which the DJs began isolating the percussion breaks to hit funk, soul, R&B and disco songs. The roots of this type of songs stem back to the mid-1950s when soul/funk rock artist James Brown credit Little Richard's band as having been the first to put the funk in the rock beat. These songs were based on – "breakbeat" DJing. As hip hop became popular, performers began speaking while the music played, and became known as MCs or emcees. In 1979, the first commercially issued hip hop recordings were released: "Rapper's Delight" by The Sugarhill Gang which became a Top 40 hit on the U.S. Billboard pop singles chart. 'Rapper' in reference to music was actually coined by this song. Some historians cite King Tim III (Personality Jock) by the Fatback Band to be the first commercially released hip hop recording but they were a funk and disco group.
History
Main article: History of hip hop music
The main historical eras of hip hop are the old school hip hop era (1970 to 1985), which spanned from the beginning of hip hop until its emergence into the mainstream, and the golden age hip hop era (1985 to 1993), which consolidated the sounds of the East Coast and the West Coast and transitioned into the modern era with the rise of gangsta rap and G-funk, created by the West Coast. The years after 1993 contain the hardcore hip hop, bling, and underground genres, which largely define the modern era.
Hip hop arose during the 1970s at block parties in New York City, at which the DJs began isolating the percussion breaks to hit funk, soul, R&B and disco songs. The roots of this type of songs stem back to the mid-1950s when soul/funk rock artist James Brown credit Little Richard's band as having been the first to put the funk in the rock beat. These songs were based on – "breakbeat" DJing. As hip hop became popular, performers began speaking while the music played, and became known as MCs or emcees. In 1979, the first commercially issued hip hop recordings were released: "Rapper's Delight" by The Sugarhill Gang which became a Top 40 hit on the U.S. Billboard pop singles chart. 'Rapper' in reference to music was actually coined by this song. Some historians cite King Tim III (Personality Jock) by the Fatback Band to be the first commercially released hip hop recording but they were a funk and disco group.
there you go again: kool herc mostly credited as an emcee???
also, i don't know what your wikipedia (the source of the truth?) quote should prove. I read hiphop's roots are in the 50's (roots being not the thing itself, i hope we can agree on that) and forming in the 70's.
noel emits
a wonderful wooden reason
Can I request that this argument be carried out in rhyme from now on?
Poisonous Dart
Lone Swordsman
Oh man...
I just wrote a long ass answer to these questions that got erased. I'll summarized what I just spent the last 30 minutes writing:
The final element of hip hop of emceeing. Coke La Rock was Kool Herc's first emcee in 1972.
No, in 1972 everyone didn't realize or recognize that they were all doing "hip hop" as they just though they were doing separate things in related fields....several graf writers don't feel that they are a part of hip hop culture (being a former writer I can attest to this). Herc was spinning back in 1972 but he was still running around writing graf with the Ex Vandals until he got sick of being arrested for it. His first BIG parties were at 1520 Sedgwick Ave. in 1973...they started getting poppin' heavy in 1974/5...That must be what polz is referring to (For proof read "Yes Yes Y'all")
I don't agree that Americans should take the "Hip Hop Is Ours" stance...shit, Canada, France, Italy, the Netherlands, Iceland, UK, Japan, Korea, Australia and Germany have arguably been making better hip hop and doing a better job with the culture than Americans were. Americans tend to be ignorant of the culture and take it for granted because they "grew up in it". Jeezy discounted Monie because he had no idea who she was! Monie Love was making classics when he was wetting the bed!
"Real Hip Hop" is a bullshit phrase used by "purists" to justify their own biases and prejudices. How can I tell someone from Houston that what they listen to isn't "real' because I can't relate to it? Can someone from Houston relate to Cannibal Ox's "The Cold Vein"? No. To them THAT isn't "real hip hop". Hip Hop is Hip Hop whether it was made in Osaka, Japan, Glascow, Scotland, Reyjavik, Iceland, Krakow, Poland or Brooklyn, New York...Say it with me people: HIP HOP IS UNIVERSAL!!!!!!!!!!!!
@ Gumdrops: I don't just recite hip hop knowledge like wrote memory from school and I'm not some "hip hop zealot/fundamentalist" either. Nor am I a hip hop purist...I hate those assholes! I was a B Boy, a graf writer and later an emcee. I grew up listening to a wide range and variety of rap...they were all considered hip hop. Jazzy Jeff & The Fresh Prince, Salt N' Pepa, Kid N' Play and LL Cool J used to tour with Public Enemy, EPMD, Ice T, and N.W.A! Do you think that could happen now? Hell no! That's what's sad to me. You can like Mista F.A.B. and Common at the same time...Why can't you?
Anyone trying "figure me out" please read my AllHipHop.com blog series about hip hop. The links are on my MySpace page...You'd be surprised that my views aren't that of a dude on a Hip Hop jihad for "real hip hop" after all. LOL.
One.
I just wrote a long ass answer to these questions that got erased. I'll summarized what I just spent the last 30 minutes writing:
The final element of hip hop of emceeing. Coke La Rock was Kool Herc's first emcee in 1972.
No, in 1972 everyone didn't realize or recognize that they were all doing "hip hop" as they just though they were doing separate things in related fields....several graf writers don't feel that they are a part of hip hop culture (being a former writer I can attest to this). Herc was spinning back in 1972 but he was still running around writing graf with the Ex Vandals until he got sick of being arrested for it. His first BIG parties were at 1520 Sedgwick Ave. in 1973...they started getting poppin' heavy in 1974/5...That must be what polz is referring to (For proof read "Yes Yes Y'all")
I don't agree that Americans should take the "Hip Hop Is Ours" stance...shit, Canada, France, Italy, the Netherlands, Iceland, UK, Japan, Korea, Australia and Germany have arguably been making better hip hop and doing a better job with the culture than Americans were. Americans tend to be ignorant of the culture and take it for granted because they "grew up in it". Jeezy discounted Monie because he had no idea who she was! Monie Love was making classics when he was wetting the bed!
"Real Hip Hop" is a bullshit phrase used by "purists" to justify their own biases and prejudices. How can I tell someone from Houston that what they listen to isn't "real' because I can't relate to it? Can someone from Houston relate to Cannibal Ox's "The Cold Vein"? No. To them THAT isn't "real hip hop". Hip Hop is Hip Hop whether it was made in Osaka, Japan, Glascow, Scotland, Reyjavik, Iceland, Krakow, Poland or Brooklyn, New York...Say it with me people: HIP HOP IS UNIVERSAL!!!!!!!!!!!!
@ Gumdrops: I don't just recite hip hop knowledge like wrote memory from school and I'm not some "hip hop zealot/fundamentalist" either. Nor am I a hip hop purist...I hate those assholes! I was a B Boy, a graf writer and later an emcee. I grew up listening to a wide range and variety of rap...they were all considered hip hop. Jazzy Jeff & The Fresh Prince, Salt N' Pepa, Kid N' Play and LL Cool J used to tour with Public Enemy, EPMD, Ice T, and N.W.A! Do you think that could happen now? Hell no! That's what's sad to me. You can like Mista F.A.B. and Common at the same time...Why can't you?
Anyone trying "figure me out" please read my AllHipHop.com blog series about hip hop. The links are on my MySpace page...You'd be surprised that my views aren't that of a dude on a Hip Hop jihad for "real hip hop" after all. LOL.
One.
N
nomadologist
Guest
PD, I don't think we should say "hip-hop is ours", either. Hip-hop is "diasporic"--it happens at the interstices where cultures meet, and it happens in interesting ways in a lot of different cultures around the world. It's especially interesting to me to see how hip-hop morphs and evolves in a lot of third world countries.
I don't always agree with your taste or your opinions, but I was trying to point out that at least they are well-reasoned and backed by first-hand experience. The entire argument about the term "One" really irked me, so I felt like I should defend what some people here thought was an arrogant attitude on your part.
I also thought it was strange that you were being misrepresented somewhat as a jihadists for "real hip hop", since I've never read you that way. I actually like your four elements idea and would love to read you make that argument in more detail--link me to your blog post if you have one...?
I don't personally give a rat's ass what year hip-hop officially began, if it "officially" began at all. I was just saying that I thought PD's argument seemed sound to me. It still does, as does everything he says in his post above.
I don't always agree with your taste or your opinions, but I was trying to point out that at least they are well-reasoned and backed by first-hand experience. The entire argument about the term "One" really irked me, so I felt like I should defend what some people here thought was an arrogant attitude on your part.
I also thought it was strange that you were being misrepresented somewhat as a jihadists for "real hip hop", since I've never read you that way. I actually like your four elements idea and would love to read you make that argument in more detail--link me to your blog post if you have one...?
I don't personally give a rat's ass what year hip-hop officially began, if it "officially" began at all. I was just saying that I thought PD's argument seemed sound to me. It still does, as does everything he says in his post above.
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